To unite or not to unite?

[Putnamsmif]

Sorry wrong thread! Deleted!

 

[curry756]

Unfortunately it is getting to the stage now on this forum where you daren't ask a question without fear of the usual suspects just putting you down for being a beginner. To be honest there's almost an element of bullying about it now.

Every question's been asked before. As a beginner what is wrong with asking more experienced beekeepers questions to back up or confirm what you have read? Should we qualify every question with a list of references?

For those of you still using pen and paper you had either better get used to it or stop using the internet. In 10 years time there will be new beekeepers who have never opened a book on the subject - everything they've learned will come from the internet.

I agree - well said

 

[curry756]

Sorry wrong thread! Deleted!

OK - now I'm confused

 

[JohnRoss]

He is talking about the fact that if you collected a cast swarm at the end of may count two weeks for the queen to get mated and start laying, then count 21 days for brood to start to emerge then count two weeks for those emerged bees to become foragers it is clear that even after a unite the number of foragers will have been falling since the swarm capture and will continue to fall until the number of emerging bees becoming foragers outnumbers the number of foragers dieing out. This will be about 6-8 weeks after the initial swarm capture or in the second week in July.

 

[oliver90owner]

Well done, John Ross.

Simple really, when you actually draw a time line v population. I was actually counting three weeks from emergence to forager, but I'm not complaining. Rough and ready is more than enough to demostrate the point. Not sure of your maths but not checked too closely. You have the idea. A thinking beek.

RAB

 

[curry756]

He is talking about the fact that if you collected a cast swarm at the end of may count two weeks for the queen to get mated and start laying, then count 21 days for brood to start to emerge then count two weeks for those emerged bees to become foragers it is clear that even after a unite the number of foragers will have been falling since the swarm capture and will continue to fall until the number of emerging bees becoming foragers outnumbers the number of foragers dieing out. This will be about 6-8 weeks after the initial swarm capture or in the second week in July.

Well done, John Ross.

Simple really, when you actually draw a time line v population. I was actually counting three weeks from emergence to forager, but I'm not complaining. Rough and ready is more than enough to demostrate the point. Not sure of your maths but not checked too closely. You have the idea. A thinking beek.

RAB

Thanks guys - now I get it. And I just realised it doesn't help anyone when I get my dates mixed up - damn! I blooming double checked the details too. Hive 4&5 were collected end of April they have now trebled in size since I collected them (after reducing in size first). Hive 1&2 were collected the end May and these numbers have have just started to pick up again. Hence the reason to unite.
Apologies for the incorrect information and thanks for the help. Just needed a little push in the right direction.

So that aside - would it be wise or unwise to unite now?

 

[BeeJayBee]

No workers would be lost

How long do workers live at this time of year, and how long does it take for worker eggs to develop into foraging bees?

edit:
Sorry, hadn't seen the other two pages of the thread.

 

[Snelmore]

I agree - well said

I agree. I find the tone of this site very off putting. Pity.

 

[JohnRoss]

That being the case, as you said at the start, Hive 1-4 and 2-5 sounds like a good choice. Wait for hive 3 to get mated. What you could do is rather that squash one of your two surplus queens is remove it and use it to re-queen the one with suspected chalk brood.

As to which queen to squash it is hard to say. What I would do, (That is not saying this is right) is give them all a thorough inspection. Keep an eye out for brood pattern, pollen and honey collected so far etc, all other things being equil the first hive with a bee that tried to sting me would loose it's queen. In My opinion with double brood issues with agression are amplified by the bees being more confidant and the increased numbers of flyers.

 

[thorn]

I can only assume as you haven't actually given me a choice. Can you shed any light onto what you are thinking? or shall I 'assume' you are just being awkward?

Either help me or don't - its not hard!

RAB always gives helpful advice, but in an oblique way. He tries to encourage us to find the answer for ourselves. It's a good approach, but doesn't take into account that asking those with more experience is one way of finding the answer. There are times when he could and should enlarge on his answer. This wasn't one of those times. He pointed you in the right direction straight away.

He was trying to get you to think about the timeline. He tried three times before he became impatient - unusually forebearing for him. Then John weighed in with the answer and got the lollipop.

Think of RAB as that teacher you had at school, who you hated, but who got you through the exam by making you think for yourself.

 

[curry756]

RAB always gives helpful advice, but in an oblique way. He tries to encourage us to find the answer for ourselves. It's a good approach, but doesn't take into account that asking those with more experience is one way of finding the answer. There are times when he could and should enlarge on his answer. This wasn't one of those times. He pointed you in the right direction straight away.

He was trying to get you to think about the timeline. He tried three times before he became impatient - unusually forebearing for him. Then John weighed in with the answer and got the lollipop.

Think of RAB as that teacher you had at school, who you hated, but who got you through the exam by making you think for yourself.

Yes I get all of this. I tried to get to the answer twice before I got impatient. But insulting and belittling people is not the way to make a point. We are all busy, I have a very time consuming and mentally draining full time job, as do others on here, so sometimes I do miss the obvious - we all do, we are only human. I am not, as it was put, “a slow learner” and “wrong again, as usual” - I have spent over 10 years designing, developing and testing global internet solutions for online archiving and security companies including a few years at one of the largest software company in the world. So I don’t think I am always wrong or a slow learner - quite the opposite.

I am also not an expert in beekeeping - far from it, but I am privileged to be in a position where I can keep bees - I know a lot of people who cant keep bees for whatever reason. Its not a cheap hobby either. I would like to learn more about bees and I have a great Mentor who is a Master Beekeeper, but its also nice to get other peoples opinions and have friendly discussions about what others think. Its what communities and groups are about. You wont make many friends in a room if you are obnoxious, sarcastic or a pretentious know it all, so why should online communities be any different?

From reading others comments on here it clearly isn't just me who gets frustrated with these issues either.

Cant we just all respect each other for being different and get along? Some people are slow learners, some do need more of a push sometimes, some are occasionally completely wrong, some are always completely wrong, some are just darn right idiotic, rude or know-it-alls. But one things is guaranteed - we all make mistakes. We are all on this forum for one reason and we all share the same desire - to keep bees in the best and most comfortable way possible.

 

[Ginger19]

Hi Curry, I agree 100% with everything you wrote, unfortunately it was your turn for a caning. The big worry for me is the number of people that look at this forum and dare not approach it...

 

[BeeJayBee]

Cant we just all respect each other for being different and get along?

Yep!

Respect each person's style of writing and so on, or isn't that what you mean?

 

[Bosleeu]

Yes I get all of this. I tried to get to the answer twice before I got impatient. But insulting and belittling people is not the way to make a point. We are all busy, I have a very time consuming and mentally draining full time job, as do others on here, so sometimes I do miss the obvious - we all do, we are only human. I am not, as it was put, “a slow learner” and “wrong again, as usual” - I have spent over 10 years designing, developing and testing global internet solutions for online archiving and security companies including a few years at one of the largest software company in the world. So I don’t think I am always wrong or a slow learner - quite the opposite.

I am also not an expert in beekeeping - far from it, but I am privileged to be in a position where I can keep bees - I know a lot of people who cant keep bees for whatever reason. Its not a cheap hobby either. I would like to learn more about bees and I have a great Mentor who is a Master Beekeeper, but its also nice to get other peoples opinions and have friendly discussions about what others think. Its what communities and groups are about. You wont make many friends in a room if you are obnoxious, sarcastic or a pretentious know it all, so why should online communities be any different?

From reading others comments on here it clearly isn't just me who gets frustrated with these issues either.

Cant we just all respect each other for being different and get along? Some people are slow learners, some do need more of a push sometimes, some are occasionally completely wrong, some are always completely wrong, some are just darn right idiotic, rude or know-it-alls. But one things is guaranteed - we all make mistakes. We are all on this forum for one reason and we all share the same desire - to keep bees in the best and most comfortable way possible.

Wise words, it is a shame too see some being sarcastic like that. No point in making people feel nervous about posting.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Madge]

Reading your first post, it seems to me that you went into winter with one colony, #6, now with dwindling numbers and, so far, this year, you've collected five swarms. I wonder whether all of your swarms came from #6? If t hat is so, why don't you keep your colonies as they are, let them grow strong and learn about inspecting colonies as your colonies grow in strength. It's sometimes difficult to spot queen cells. Anyway, I don't like to destroy good queens just to hurry them along and create big colonies.

 

[beeno]

Hi Curry,
Being of a strong constitution I would like to add the following. If I were you I would unite now to catch the current flow as otherwise all your swarms will just put it into brood and you will not get any surplus. Nectar gathering is a constant and brood rearing is the variable! Some maths to be done there, but I leave that to the more able on this forum. Uniting in August I would do to get my colonies strong for winter or to effect decreases in colony numbers.
I use double brood, because I could not stand the endless swarming that a single national seems to cause! Double brood has it drawbacks too of course.
You seems to have gathered a lot of freebees there. Enjoy your beekeeping as I do in spades!

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Reading your first post, it seems to me that you went into winter with one colony, #6, now with dwindling numbers and, so far, this year, you've collected five swarms. I wonder whether all of your swarms came from #6? If t hat is so, why don't you keep your colonies as they are, let them grow strong and learn about inspecting colonies as your colonies grow in strength. It's sometimes difficult to spot queen cells. Anyway, I don't like to destroy good queens just to hurry them along and create big colonies.

Brilliant! Well spotted!

 

[curry756]

Reading your first post, it seems to me that you went into winter with one colony, #6, now with dwindling numbers and, so far, this year, you've collected five swarms. I wonder whether all of your swarms came from #6? If t hat is so, why don't you keep your colonies as they are, let them grow strong and learn about inspecting colonies as your colonies grow in strength. It's sometimes difficult to spot queen cells. Anyway, I don't like to destroy good queens just to hurry them along and create big colonies.

Thanks for your suggestion, but this is not the case. The swarms were a good drive away from my house.

These bees have been heavily affected by chalkbrood - to the point that half of all brood reared was affected. I changed all the hardware and frames and foundation and there was no change in the chalkbrood situation. So I requeened too. Still no change - now this queen has died too before i could see a real difference. They are now in a brand new poly nuc and are making no efforts to rear a new queen with the test frames I give them. There are no other eggs in this colony apart from the test frame. This is why I am wary of uniting this colony as I dont want to bring another one down with them. Still unsure of what to do with these to be honest

 

[curry756]

Hi Curry,
Being of a strong constitution I would like to add the following. If I were you I would unite now to catch the current flow as otherwise all your swarms will just put it into brood and you will not get any surplus. Nectar gathering is a constant and brood rearing is the variable! Some maths to be done there, but I leave that to the more able on this forum. Uniting in August I would do to get my colonies strong for winter or to effect decreases in colony numbers.
I use double brood, because I could not stand the endless swarming that a single national seems to cause! Double brood has it drawbacks too of course.
You seems to have gathered a lot of freebees there. Enjoy your beekeeping as I do in spades!

Thanks - very informative. And another area for me to research too. Still sitting on the fence - might unite 1 colony now and see. I keep thinking 2 queens in 2 broods (i.e.2 hives) would give me more workforce over time than 1 queen in 2 broods. So many decisions and no real correct way to do it.