Thymol based treatments

[Monbees]

I can't find the interesting post from a few days ago, when Mr Jenkins said that mites do not develop resistance to thymol based products such as Apiguard/Apilife Var. This being the case, why do beekeepers not stick with thymol, (then oxalic acid when necessary), rather than using the nastier chemical based treatments which need to be used on a rotational basis anyway in order to prevent resistance build-up? (Nastier is my subjective view, l'm sure others will disagree!)

 

[Erichalfbee]

I can't find the interesting post from a few days ago, when Mr Jenkins said that mites do not develop resistance to thymol based products such as Apiguard/Apilife Var. This being the case, why do beekeepers not stick with thymol, (then oxalic acid when necessary), rather than using the nastier chemical based treatments which need to be used on a rotational basis anyway in order to prevent resistance build-up? (Nastier is my subjective view, l'm sure others will disagree!)

This is my reason.
The first time I used Thymol as a new beekeeper I used Apilife. For the first couple of days half the hive decamped outside the hive. Maybe it was too warm, I can’t remember. The next year was the first year MAQS was available in the U.K. and keen to try something new that promised to get the varroa inside the brood I used that in my four hives. I lost two queens.
Then I discovered sublimating Oxalic with a varrox here in this forum and I’ve used nothing else since, simply upgraded the method of delivery.
Mites don’t develop resistance to Oxalic and the bees are very tolerant of it.

 

[Bryang]

I had the same result using MAQS...lost the three Qs from my three hives....Now only use sublimated oxalic..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Convenience and cost is a lot of it.
With Apiguard, it's a four week treatment, has to be put on before it gets too cold, needs ekes and you have to open the hive up three times at 'the wrong time of the year'
With OA sublimation using the three dose cycle, you are not constrained to rushing them off late forage to get the treatment on.
This might change a bit once people start looking at using Thymovar which, although still needs four weeks is just a couple of strips put into the hive (although you do need to give them beespace above the frames)

 

[Erichalfbee]

Convenience and cost is a lot of it.
With Apiguard, it's a four week treatment, has to be put on before it gets too cold, needs ekes and you have to open the hive up three times at 'the wrong time of the year'
With OA sublimation using the three dose cycle, you are not constrained to rushing them off late forage to get the treatment on.
This might change a bit once people start looking at using Thymovar which, although still needs four weeks is just a couple of strips put into the hive (although you do need to give them beespace above the frames)

And then there’s Abelo’s Oxalic acid strips.
I’ve seen Thymovar advertised but I’m not really that familiar with it. It looks remarkably similar to Apilife Var

 

[Apple]

There is the organic route to dealing with Varroa and even some peer reviewed evidence of its efficacy..

Rhubarb leaves placed above the brood

Chons da

 

[pargyle]

There is the organic route to dealing with Varroa and even some peer reviewed evidence of its efficacy..

Rhubarb leaves placed above the brood

Chons da

Naughty naughty... this is the beginners section ... they are subjected to enough well meaning tripe without you confusiing them further !

 

[Apple]

Naughty naughty... this is the beginners section ... they are subjected to enough well meaning tripe without you confusiing them further !

Well I use it... Rhubarb leaves that is.... can even make up a bee tonic if infused into Vimto!!!

 

[pargyle]

Well I use it... Rhubarb leaves that is.... can even make up a bee tonic if infused into Vimto!!!

 

[Apple]

View attachment 22824

Very good!

 

[Monbees]

And then there’s Abelo’s Oxalic acid strips.
I’ve seen Thymovar advertised but I’m not really that familiar with it. It looks remarkably similar to Apilife Var

Just had a look at Thymovar. Looks more robust than Apilife var wafers which are almost impossible not to break. Think l will give Thymovar a go next year; a long shelf life is a plus for those with only a few hives.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just had a look at Thymovar. Looks more robust than Apilife var wafers which are almost impossible not to break. Think l will give Thymovar a go next year; a long shelf life is a plus for those with only a few hives.

I like my sublimox because another thing I can do with it is an accelerated drop.
My colonies were vaped a month ago and today I'm doing a drop to check for reinfestation

 

[Curly green finger's]

I like my sublimox because another thing I can do with it is an accelerated drop.
My colonies were vaped a month ago and today I'm doing a drop to check for reinfestation

Same here dani, are you leaving yours for 30 days or so before doing an excelerated drop??

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes. Doing them today weather permitting

 

[Monbees]

Yes. Doing them today weather permitting

Not being familiar with OA vaping, can you explain a accelerated drop?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Not being familiar with OA vaping, can you explain a accelerated drop?

Using a fast miticide to measure the drop in mites not in brood
Icing sugar works if you liberally dust each frame but it has too many drawbacks too be even considered in my opinion.
In the presence of brood 80% of the mites are under cappings
If you vape you are practically guaranteed to get all (ish) of the mites on the bees
Count the 24 hour drop (no longer or you are counting mites emerging from newly emerging brood.
Multiply by five and you have the colony total
Its rough and ready but accurate for most purposes as long as you factor in the presence of brood

 

[Curly green finger's]

Yes. Doing them today weather permitting

You'll need an umbrella then, I'm doing some on Wed or Thursday weather is dry then.

 

[gmonag]

I don't test for varroa per se, I just assume there are there (and they always have been so far). Counting the drop gives a pretty good indication of how many were there when I treated with OA and then they are already dead.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don't test for varroa per se, I just assume there are there (and they always have been so far). Counting the drop gives a pretty good indication of how many were there when I treated with OA and then they are already dead.

I like to do a check a month later. Some colonies need a second round

 

[ChrisS]

At the risk of being flamed, I do use MAQS and have a lot of success with it. Occasionally it triggers supersedure, especially if the queen is a couple of years old and presumably producing less pheromone.

I like MAQS for several reasons. Its active ingredient is formic acid which is a natural organic acid and doesn't cause mite resistance. It doesn't build up in the wax. It can be used in summer with sealed brood and supers on as it doesn't taint honey. It's a one-shot treatment with immediately visible results on the varroa tray.

I have learnt it's very important to follow the instructions. Use it only on good sized colonies (at least 5 seams of bees) and make sure there's plenty of room above the brood box for the colony to spread out. No top ventilation, entrance block out, varroa tray in if you have a mesh floor (otherwise the heavy vapour just falls out without doing its work).

Bee Equipment have been selling MAQS very cheaply but say the supplier now refuses to deal with them. See MAQS Statement.
Thornes sell it at £55 for a box of 10.