Thriving ferals

[Finman]

I think you are mixing up the terms of "feral" and " Wild Native"
feral is merely a condition of not being under the supervision of humans.

And from where you meet " wild feral" Mellifera? Difficult to mix, when such does not exist.

These things will be not solved with inventing new words.

Taming some Wild Native animal takes really huge time period.

Like Africanized bee scutellata in America. On its living area hobby beekeeping has stopped. You must put protective clothes on at the distance of half kilometre.
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[Beefriendly]

Like Africanized bee scutellata in America. On its living area hobby beekeeping has stopped. You must put protective clothes on at the distance of half kilometre.
.

And they take over beekeepers colonies, killing the original queen. A process called usurpation. Given a few American beekeepers quite a shock to find their gentle colonies suddenly Africanized.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

She looked in Ennerdale (Kielder Forrest?) and a couple of other remote places....she didn't find any honey bees there at all. Suggesting

................ that honeybees aren't that partial to living in trees and aforested areas?

 

[user 6228]

................ that honeybees aren't that partial to living in trees and aforested areas?

kielder forest is their much nectar and old trees with hollows there?

"Kielder is dominated by conifers. Sitka spruce (Picea sitchensis) covers 75% of the planted area; this species thrives in the damp conditions afforded by northern Britain. Other species include Norway spruce (Picea abies) and lodgepole pine (Pinus contorta), which cover 9% of the area each. The remainder is made up of Scots pine (Pinus sylvestris), larch (Larix spp.), Douglas-fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii), and broadleaves including birch (Betula spp.), rowan (Sorbus aucuparia), cherry (Prunus spp.), oak (Quercus spp.), beech (Fagus sylvatica), and willow (Salix spp."

wikipedia

doesnt sound much like honey bee heaven.

 

[Eyeman]

This feral colony has made it through to 2018.

 

[Madge]

And they take over beekeepers colonies, killing the original queen. A process called usurpation. Given a few American beekeepers quite a shock to find their gentle colonies suddenly Africanized.

Is that a fact - that Africanised bees in America kill a colony’s queen and usurp the colony?

Because that’s a characteristic of capensis, not of scutellata - and Africanised bees were hybridised from scutellata, as far as I know, and not from capensis.

 

[Eyeman]

Is that a fact - that Africanised bees in America kill a colony’s queen and usurp the colony?

Because that’s a characteristic of capensis, not of scutellata - and Africanised bees were hybridised from scutellata, as far as I know, and not from capensis.

usurpation of a colony by a late season swarm is one reason why that swarmyvcolony should decide to swarm so late in the season when over winter survival of the swarm would be low if it had to start from scratch.

 

[beeno]

Is that a fact - that Africanised bees in America kill a colony’s queen and usurp the colony?

Because that’s a characteristic of capensis, not of scutellata - and Africanised bees were hybridised from scutellata, as far as I know, and not from capensis.

They both display the same trait Capensis in South Africa and Scutellata in America according to the university of Florida.

 

[Madge]

usurpation of a colony by a late season swarm is one reason why that swarmyvcolony should decide to swarm so late in the season when over winter survival of the swarm would be low if it had to start from scratch.

Sorry Eyeman, I don’t quite understand what you’re trying to say.

I understand that usurpation will be to a swarm’s advantage, but I thought that habit is restricted to capensis. It’s not present in scutellata, nor in our European honey bees.

 

[Madge]

They both display the same trait Capensis in South Africa and Scutellata in America according to the university of Florida.

Thanks Beeno. That’s interesting.

A few years ago I had a conversation with Martin Johannsmeier, a respected beekeeper and researcher in SA. According to him (if I understood him correctly) it’s a capensis characteristic, and that it’s caused huge problems among scutellata colonies after some ***** moved capensis over the mountains into scutellata country.

I’ll have to find out more.

 

[Eyeman]

Sorry Eyeman, I don’t quite understand what you’re trying to say.

I understand that usurpation will be to a swarm’s advantage, but I thought that habit is restricted to capensis. It’s not present in scutellata, nor in our European honey bees.

There was an article in the America bee J reporting that it was more common than once thought in North America.
I've had a swarm take over one of my smaller nuc conies in the past so I'm sure it can happen with bees in the UK

 

[beeno]

Thanks Beeno. That’s interesting.

A few years ago I had a conversation with Martin Johannsmeier, a respected beekeeper and researcher in SA. According to him (if I understood him correctly) it’s a capensis characteristic, and that it’s caused huge problems among scutellata colonies after some ***** moved capensis over the mountains into scutellata country.

I’ll have to find out more.

Yes, South African beekeepers kill all capenis colonies they can to protect scutellata according to South African visiting beekeeper in Thornes. Scutellata it would appear take on the same role with a different sub-species. Makes you wonder about all these tiny swarms in our country. Maybe they have the same strategy?

 

[Beagle23]

I've only seen one feral colony in a tree and that was last summer on Ashtead Common (near Epsom). I walked past the same spot a week ago and there are still bees in the tree.

 

[beebopper]

And you have hard evidence to prove that 'colony 4' is the same colony that was sighted 14 years ago? or the others for that matter.

How would you prove these colonies have survived over winter. Would simply seeing bees fly at the very start of the season be good enough? This is a genuine question and not got any agenda.

 

[Beefriendly]

There was an article in the America bee J reporting that it was more common than once thought in North America.
I've had a swarm take over one of my smaller nuc conies in the past so I'm sure it can happen with bees in the UK

The article was referring mainly to Africanized bees in the states as these are the real usurpation experts.
It did make me wonder whether our bees ever do it and if it's ever noticed. Your observation suggests it certainly can happen.

 

[Finman]

.
Is it so essential that it may happen sometimes. At least it is not common.

I have had 50 years small and mating nuc colonies, and no one has occupied them.
When I had 4 chamber mating nuc "castle", it happened often that one Queen moved to next door and killed queens in other chamber. They heard each other peeping call to fight. Then I started to use solitary mating nucs and these dead out finished.

One American beekeeper had 30 nucs, and in a month half of hives were occupied by africanized small swarms and they changed the Queen. So he wrote. I do not know.

 

[Poly Hive]

The one I observed for 10 years was flying in winter. I have now moved away but I so hope it is still there as the farm was scheduled to be covered in concrete for a distribution centre.

Madness. How are we to feed ourselves if we keep destroying perfectly good farm land and a few miles up the road a redundant power station's cooling towers sit on brown land doing nothing.

PH

 

[user 6228]

The one I observed for 10 years was flying in winter. I have now moved away but I so hope it is still there as the farm was scheduled to be covered in concrete for a distribution centre.

Madness. How are we to feed ourselves if we keep destroying perfectly good farm land and a few miles up the road a redundant power station's cooling towers sit on brown land doing nothing.

PH

Old power station = possibly asbestos contaminated land = lots of surveys lots of paper work = lots of delays lot of cost.
low food price = low margin distribution centre => greenfield site.

I dont like it either but the numbers tell the tale/

 

[Eyeman]

Here's the usurpation article from the ABJ.
View attachment usurpation ABJ.pdf

 

[beeno]

Thanks Eyeman, Small but lethal. Gives all the Apidea escapees a fighting chance.