The truth behind fondants

[mbc]

"Sales construct" ,sums up the thread

 

[Anduril]

Just did a search at the WTO website, it returned zilch, nada, nothing, nil, zero. It certainly doesn't come under the VMD. As to HMF, you pays yer money and you takes your chances. A seasonal bee inspector once advised using supermarket fondant as an emergency. There are recipes for sugar blocks using cider vinegar and you can also make your own fondant. I'm sure if the NBU wanted to stop us, they would.

 

[user 20297]

I guess it’s in our legislation somewhere we flipped the EU legislation, I am not fully up with animal feeds, you could contact them, they are verry approachable.

Feeds for animals need to be "safe" because the products we eat come directly from their bodies; we also have a duty to protect the wellbeing of higher animals.
Honey isn't an integral part of a bee is it? Admirable creature though it is, a bee doesn't live long enough for the impact of a small amount of HMF (if it is actually present) to be relevant.

 

[pargyle]

Who the heck are "the Feed authorities"?

They are the enforcement and regulatory section of the Feed Police ... who in turn are an agency devolved from the Thought Police ... if you think anything is OK to feed your bees then they will be round to check whether they think it is as well and more often than not they will think it won't bee. At which point you will be immersed in a vat of syrup heated beyond the point where it has more HMF than sugar and be stoned to death with Norfolk beets ...

Be warned ... The Feed Authorities are hiding behind every bush ... careless feed costs hives ....

 

[Goran]

Just did a search at the WTO website, it returned zilch, nada, nothing, nil, zero. It certainly doesn't come under the VMD. As to HMF, you pays yer money and you takes your chances. A seasonal bee inspector once advised using supermarket fondant as an emergency. There are recipes for sugar blocks using cider vinegar and you can also make your own fondant. I'm sure if the NBU wanted to stop us, they would.

We are making fondants during winter when less other work. Before around a decade we started, for inverting sugar syrup using citric acid. Such fondants I have till the end of summer. If You want better results there are relative cheap enzymes ( around 100 euros per liter for 1000 liters of inverted sugar syrup honey alike) - less chances for HMF, but the process is for me more demanding and I have to buy more gear. Acid inverted sugar syrup used for fondants shown nothing bad on our bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

We are making fondants during winter when less other work. Before around a decade we started, for inverting sugar syrup using citric acid. Such fondants I have till the end of summer. If You want better results there are relative cheap enzymes ( around 100 euros per liter for 1000 liters of inverted sugar syrup honey alike) - less chances for HMF, but the process is for me more demanding and I have to buy more gear. Acid inverted sugar syrup used for fondants shown nothing bad on our bees.

Yes....good job the long arm of the Feed police doesn't stretch to Croatia

 

[Goran]

Yes....good job the long arm of the Feed police doesn't stretch to Croatia

In addition, we always make them together ( 4-5 beeks): easier, faster - time flies in a sec, more entertaining,.. To Your Feed police it should look as " organized crime"..

 

[0bee-1]

and be stoned to death with Norfolk beets ...

As someone from Norfolk I think you'll find that's "beet-en to death"

 

[pargyle]

and be stoned to death with Norfolk beets ...

As someone from Norfolk I think you'll find that's "beet-en to death"

I nearly starved to death following a tractor with about 10 tons of the things in a trailer from Fakenham to Norwich .... it was snowing - there were dykes either side of the road and he was not going to move over for ANYTHING - certainly not someone in a BMW ....he was flat out at 12mph

 

[tidymeup]

Your supplier does have an axe to grind at times so much so that when faced with legal action for selling their bakers fondant to beekeepers I backed down.

It wasn’t a fight a wanted or could afford.

 

[Patrick1]

Feeds for animals need to be "safe" because the products we eat come directly from their bodies; we also have a duty to protect the wellbeing of higher animals.
Honey isn't an integral part of a bee is it? Admirable creature though it is, a bee doesn't live long enough for the impact of a small amount of HMF (if it is actually present) to be relevant.

Respectfully , you miss the point it is not the honey we are concerned about when feeding bakers fondant it is the bees mortality. It would seem that high HMF feed across the winter could affect the larva, this may explain some of the colony over winter losses.

 

[Patrick1]

Str

They are the enforcement and regulatory section of the Feed Police ... who in turn are an agency devolved from the Thought Police ... if you think anything is OK to feed your bees then they will be round to check whether they think it is as well and more often than not they will think it won't bee. At which point you will be immersed in a vat of syrup heated beyond the point where it has more HMF than sugar and be stoned to death with Norfolk beets ...

Be warned ... The Feed Authorities are hiding behind every bush ... careless feed costs hives ....

Strangely, after being ridiculed by moderators on this site I would have expected a more informed response, this is serious problem.
I appreciate that some beekeepers on this site think it amusing to mock the professional evidence from manufacturers who have to abide by regulations and facts but when we are trying to improve beekeeping standards and survival rates it would be more helpful to engage in the conversation, or what is the purpose of this forum……..an amusing day out maybe.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

If it looks like tripe, smells like tripe then chances are it IS tripe. As someone already mentioned it's most likely the Mandy Rice Davis syndrome. Her immortal words "well he would say that wouldn't he?"

 

[Erichalfbee]

Str

Strangely, after being ridiculed by moderators on this site I would have expected a more informed response, this is serious problem.
I appreciate that some beekeepers on this site think it amusing to mock the professional evidence from manufacturers who have to abide by regulations and facts but when we are trying to improve beekeeping standards and survival rates it would be more helpful to engage in the conversation, or what is the purpose of this forum……..an amusing day out maybe.

Patrick.
Beekeepers have been feeding Bakers Fondant, home made fondant, home made syrup and shop bought sugar well before your company and others were ever set up.
As for the suggestion there is a connection with winter losses perhaps we might look at the average BBKA ones whose members feed industrial quantities of Candipolline?

 

[elainemary]

Str

Strangely, after being ridiculed by moderators on this site I would have expected a more informed response, this is serious problem.
I appreciate that some beekeepers on this site think it amusing to mock the professional evidence from manufacturers who have to abide by regulations and facts but when we are trying to improve beekeeping standards and survival rates it would be more helpful to engage in the conversation, or what is the purpose of this forum……..an amusing day out maybe.

Not knowing enough about the differences between bee fondants and bakers fondant I found your posting and ensuing debate useful and has helped inform, so thanks for starting it off

I’ve tried bakers fondant once and found it dried up much more quickly and was harder for the bees to use than bee fondant. I now buy my bee fondant through an association in my region, that buys direct by the pallet and sells to members at cost, so the price difference is to bakers is low . I like the fact that it is made specifically for and is safe for bees

 

[Murox]

I nearly starved to death following a tractor with about 10 tons of the things in a trailer from Fakenham to Norwich .... it was snowing - there were dykes either side of the road and he was not going to move over for ANYTHING - certainly not someone in a BMW ....he was flat out at 12mph

I lived in Norfolk for years. Haha, thats 'normal - "drive u steady bor !" - campaign season always was a test for patience.
edit - they tend to use lorries now - same problem though, just bigger and faster.

 

[pargyle]

I lived in Norfolk for years. Haha, thats 'normal - "drive u steady bor !" - campaign season always was a test for patience.
edit - they tend to use lorries now - same problem though, just bigger and faster.

Yes ... or those big green tractors that are about the size of a double decker bus and can do about 60mph towing a trailer the size of a double decker bus .... they scare me witless !

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve tried bakers fondant once and found it dried up much more quickly and was harder for the bees to use than bee fondant

But did it harm your bees?

 

[pargyle]

Str

Strangely, after being ridiculed by moderators on this site I would have expected a more informed response, this is serious problem.
I appreciate that some beekeepers on this site think it amusing to mock the professional evidence from manufacturers who have to abide by regulations and facts but when we are trying to improve beekeeping standards and survival rates it would be more helpful to engage in the conversation, or what is the purpose of this forum……..an amusing day out maybe.

SOH Failure Patrick ?

I haven't fed sugar or fondant to my bees for some years ... mostly, they overwinter on their own stores - if I need to top them up I use Invertbee (presumably as the name is InvertBEE it will not be noticed by the Food Police ?). When I have fed sugar I have to say that I didn't notice any increased mortality above normal winter reductions but I don't really feel sufficiently qualified as a scientist or even as a beekeeper to comment on the words of such an authority as the MANUFACTURER of a product.

I ran (and latterly owned) a company for 30 years that turned over many millions of pounds respraying mineral fibre suspended acoustic ceilings that you find in offices and retail stores. In the days when people smoked in offices and shops the ceiling tiles used to turn brown fairly quickly and the aesthetics suffered. We had a very good business re-spraying the ceilings, in situ, following substantial masking and protection of the premises ... we used a product we had manufactured for us called Acoustic Dye ... my sales line was that it restored the original surface of the tile, was Class 0 fire rated so did not affect the fire retardant performance of the tiles, improved the luminescent qualities of the original tile surface, restoring and improving ambient light levels and because it was a dye it did not affect the acoustic properties of the ceiling by blocking the acoustic perforations. Our marketing was exceptional - our competitors were few - there were no alternatives - we made a fortune. Customers and specifiers quoted our words as the authority on respraying suspended acoustic mineral fibre ceilings ....

The company is long gone now so I don't feel particularly concerned about letting the cat out of the bag that our Acoustic Dye was in, in fact, cheap white emulsion paint - whitewash in more than one sense of the word,

Do I always believe the marketing words of a manufactuer, no matter how erudite or convincing they are ? Not a lot ....

 

[Murox]

Str

Strangely, after being ridiculed by moderators on this site I would have expected a more informed response, this is serious problem.
I appreciate that some beekeepers on this site think it amusing to mock the professional evidence from manufacturers who have to abide by regulations and facts but when we are trying to improve beekeeping standards and survival rates it would be more helpful to engage in the conversation, or what is the purpose of this forum……..an amusing day out maybe.

Even if you sometimes say wise things people in this forum are bound to crack jokes, make fun of you and say things which do not make any constructive point to the discussion especially so with speculative overstatement that is made with a view to catching the attention.

Respect isn't especially difficult to earn, but it must be earned – its not automatic.