The fox has had my Quail

[The Cumbrian]

With as many foxes as we have territory is lost overnight with the fox just being absent.

For my enlightenment, how is the fox which has lost its territory over night in any way in a worse position than a young dog fox looking for its own territory?

Apart from the fact it will have a more intimate knowledge of the territory it has been replaced into than the interloper.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not sure I agree with that. A bit unfair on the person who has spent a lot of time and effort looking after them and releasing them (rightly or wrongly), just to be shot by someone lurking in the bushes.
Surely better to approach the RSPCA and make your views known?

, but surely it's still a shame?
Don't we have a bit of sympathy for the person who has nursed this animal back to health because they thought it was the right thing to do?
There are plenty of people out there who would class a swarm of bees just as much of a nuisance/threat as a fox.
Just sayin'

The RSPCA who relish in hiding behind the law seem quite happy to break the one law which implicitly states it is illegal to release vermin into the wild so I have no sympathy for the ***** who 'nursed' the fox back to health - it should have been humanely dispatched forthwith.
It is wrong on every count to release urban foxes into the countryside - they are virtually a different species to the countryside foxes. A lot of these urban foxes carry mange and will spread it in the wild - I have seen enough rural foxes affected by this and it is a sorry sight (just because I hunt them, doesn't mean i wish them ill, and everyone wants to see a healthy population)
Also urban foxes do not know how to hunt and as there are few McDonald's outlets in the middle of the countryside they go for the next two easiet things - chickens in a coop or lambs (you know, poor innocent fluffy lambikins) and I have the damage foxes can do to these, it's a hearbreaking sight to see a farmer walking around a field picking up the carcasses from that mornings carnage.
By shooting them as they're released, its avoiding any of the damage they could cause and preventing the majority from dying a slow lingering death from disease or starvation.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

And there was me thinking empathy was a desirable quality.
Perhaps it is because I have never been in the situation where urban foxes are being released in my area. Things always look a little different on the other side of the fence.

 

[porterswoods]

For my enlightenment, how is the fox which has lost its territory over night in any way in a worse position than a young dog fox looking for its own territory?

Apart from the fact it will have a more intimate knowledge of the territory it has been replaced into than the interloper.

It would be like going on holiday and returning home to find that you no longer own it.

The young dog fox can pick it's fights and gradually build it's territory. The rescue fox will try and fight for it's home back. It would be fighting foxes that 'owned' the neigbouring territories when it was last there, and it is likely they would be stronger.

The interloper would be from neighbouring territory so would also know the area intimately.

 

[porterswoods]

And there was me thinking empathy was a desirable quality.
Perhaps it is because I have never been in the situation where urban foxes are being released in my area. Things always look a little different on the other side of the fence.

I would be more understanding if i had not been on the receiving end of the carnage the fox brings. My losses this year:

3 Ducks
4 Turkeys
12 Quail
356 Hens
It had a go at the Geese and lost.

How many did it actually eat, hardly any. To top it off most were in full daylight.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

I would be more understanding if i had not been on the receiving end of the carnage the fox brings. My losses this year:

3 Ducks
4 Turkeys
12 Quail
356 Hens
It had a go at the Geese and lost.

How many did it actually eat, hardly any. To top it off most were in full daylight.

You'll get no argument from me on that. As I said, I have lost countless hens to the fox and I have little sympathy for the animals. Just trying to see it from both sides that's all.

 

[porterswoods]

Just trying to see it from both sides that's all.

If only the RSPCA would. They even try to tell me not to use rat poison as it harms the rats!

 

[The Cumbrian]

It would be like going on holiday and returning home to find that you no longer own it.

I can see that.

The young dog fox can pick it's fights and gradually build it's territory. The rescue fox will try and fight for it's home back. It would be fighting foxes that 'owned' the neighbouring territories when it was last there, and it is likely they would be stronger.

Which presumably it will have fought before in "border" skirmishes". Are foxes not like other territorial animals which when they intrude into another's territory the likely hood of them winning a fight decreases with the distance away from the "border" of the territory. Most territorial animals will take more than 24 hours or so to have taken over a vacated territory to the extent that they can/will hold it against the return of the incumbent.

I must assume Foxes are in someway different from the other territorial animals in the world.

The interloper would be from neighbouring territory so would also know the area intimately.

This again differs from other territorial animals. They will always know the territory of their neighbours for a short distance into it. To know the whole territory intimately it must have been passing through it regularly which rather means fights between it and the other fox either don't happen or haven't been too serious. See also my point above about fighting and distance from the "border".

I am at a loss to understand why/how foxes should differ so much from other territorial animals.

 

[aberreef]

If only the RSPCA would. They even try to tell me not to use rat poison as it harms the rats!

They really are the most rediculous organisation

I can see that.

Which presumably it will have fought before in "border" skirmishes". Are foxes not like other territorial animals which when they intrude into another's territory the likely hood of them winning a fight decreases with the distance away from the "border" of the territory. Most territorial animals will take more than 24 hours or so to have taken over a vacated territory to the extent that they can/will hold it against the return of the incumbent.

I must assume Foxes are in someway different from the other territorial animals in the world.

This again differs from other territorial animals. They will always know the territory of their neighbours for a short distance into it. To know the whole territory intimately it must have been passing through it regularly which rather means fights between it and the other fox either don't happen or haven't been too serious. See also my point above about fighting and distance from the "border".

I am at a loss to understand why/how foxes should differ so much from other territorial animals.

They are just the same as all territorial animals I'd have thought. The trouble is when one is released into unfamiliar territory with a resident population it has no boundaries to work to, no knowledge of the terrain, shelter, food sources, water etc. Hence they get a good spanking from every local fox that it comes in contact with.

I love a good rant at the RSPCA rescue programs. I watched one the other day where the 'officers' tried so hard to rescue a slightly injured deer that was "stuck" in a school yard that it had to be put down by the time they'd finished Same episode saw them call out the fire service to rescue a crow that was stuck on some fishing line in a tree. Several hours later it too was destroyed

 

[TOBY-3652]

Im also no fan of foxes. Ive heared of all these foxes being released in the countryside van loads of them. Weve all got mobile phones with cameras how come no one has taken a picture?? I think the league against everything has put up £1000 pound reward for a picture, no one has claimed yet/ im sure there is some dumping going on but how much ???

 

[Storm™]

Controversially if I had chickens and a fox yaffled them all I would berate myself for being a poor keeper of livestock and endeavour to make my stock fencing suitable to the environment needed. Instead of forcing the environment to adapt around my wants and needs. More work in the beginning, less hassle and stress in the long run. I couldnt blame a wild animal for following its instincts. If by shooting one, others would learn by it I might consider it but thats not going to happen. So I would either, improve my protection, and or feed them at a certain place and train them that an easier meal is to be had away from my chickens. But I would not get angry about it. I would certainly blame myself first and last. I guess foxes dont read rule books either , just like bees etc.

 

[porterswoods]

They will always know the territory of their neighbours for a short distance into it.

With such a large population of foxes around i can't see that territories are that big.

I have also witnessed two foxes walk along the same tracks, and even 2 foxes calmly walking within 2 feet of each other.

I say that another fox will move in quickly from experience. A friend shot a fox in the range for my chickens. The next night I
I saw another alongside the chicken house itself.

The only conclusion I can make is the high population is causing territories to be smaller and this results in other foxes moving in quickly when one is absent.

Or

The attraction of a large number of chickens overrides the need to defend territory.

 

[porterswoods]

Controversially if I had chickens and a fox yaffled them all I would berate myself for being a poor keeper of livestock and endeavour to make my stock fencing suitable to the environment needed. Instead of forcing the environment to adapt around my wants and needs. More work in the beginning, less hassle and stress in the long run. I couldnt blame a wild animal for following its instincts. If by shooting one, others would learn by it I might consider it but thats not going to happen. So I would either, improve my protection, and or feed them at a certain place and train them that an easier meal is to be had away from my chickens. But I would not get angry about it. I would certainly blame myself first and last. I guess foxes dont read rule books either , just like bees etc.

And what would you consider good fencing?

My fence is 6 feet tall topped with 2 strands of barbed wired. It is buried 1 foot into the ground with electric wire around the perimeter. Double posts instead of diagonal strainers that act as ladders.

I would consider this pretty good, but the fox can jump it.

I have plenty of dead chickens to feed foxes and have done in the past. This encourages and help a good litter of cubs to be raised, which in turn needs more chickens to feed them.

When you don't have enough to feed them they go looking for the next easiest thing. It creates a population of foxes that cannot survive, in it's surroundings, they depend on feed from you.

Shooting foxes brings the population down to a level that can be sustained by the natural environment.

 

[The Cumbrian]

They are just the same as all territorial animals I'd have thought. The trouble is when one is released into unfamiliar territory with a resident population it has no boundaries to work to, no knowledge of the terrain, shelter, food sources, water etc. Hence they get a good spanking from every local fox that it comes in contact with.

Which brings me back to my point that responsible wildlife rehabilitation organisations returned them to the place they were found. I had the impression this was the norm in fact the comments on this thread are the only ones I have come across that suggest organisation (as opposed to well meaning individual) does otherwise.

 

[Storm™]

And what would you consider good fencing?

My fence is 6 feet tall topped with 2 strands of barbed wired. It is buried 1 foot into the ground with electric wire around the perimeter. Double posts instead of diagonal strainers that act as ladders.

I would consider this pretty good, but the fox can jump it.

Yep its obviously an issue. If thats how they are getting in. I'm assuming you have witnessed them getting over it this way. The only thing you could do is arch it outwards in case they are climbing it or make it higher, or tie plastic bottles along it to thwart their grip as these would roll as they got to that bit. If they are clearing it in one jump I would extend it, but not with the expense of more wire fence but with cheap pole/rod like that stuff they put in concrete to make it stronger. Tie wrap that every 20 yards or so and use very heavy strain sea fishing line tied back and forth along it. The line you could get cheap off epay. I'm saying that because I dont know your set up. But it sounds big.

If you have not witnessed them doing this I would assume another animal which may be getting at them. There is a few it could be.

I have plenty of dead chickens to feed foxes and have done in the past. This encourages and help a good litter of cubs to be raised, which in turn needs more chickens to feed them.

Yeah sorry I was trying to keep the post small. I would never feed them anything that I wanted them to stay away from. Unfortunately it will have the effect of helping to ensure a healthier litter. But if you have trained them to the smell of chicken its kinda teaching them to eat yours.

When you don't have enough to feed them they go looking for the next easiest thing. It creates a population of foxes that cannot survive, in it's surroundings, they depend on feed from you.

Shooting foxes brings the population down to a level that can be sustained by the natural environment.

I cannot argue with that. It is of course a possible outcome. Perhaps you could feed them magpies lol. After a while ya know lol it may pay off lol. Seriously though I would always look for a harmonious solution. Creating a gap in the territories by culling reduces the strain on food sources. And has the same effect as feeding them, but at a quicker rate. At least you would decide the food intake. I wouldnt feed chicken though. Keep pigs, feed the dead chickens to them, and feed the foxes pork fat and trotters and snout lol.

 

[porterswoods]

The fence in question is 1500 meters long, so yes it is big. I saw it go over when i caught it in the act, and their is hair on the barbs.

The fox that I fed has long been shot as it became too much of a pest.

I'm now sticking with the fox I know, It has been scared off by the electric for now, until it figures it out. The electric is powerful it even knocks me off my feet.

When you are next near me you are welcome to come and look.

 

[Storm™]

The fence in question is 1500 meters long, so yes it is big. I saw it go over when i caught it in the act, and their is hair on the barbs.

The fox that I fed has long been shot as it became too much of a pest.

I'm now sticking with the fox I know, It has been scared off by the electric for now, until it figures it out. The electric is powerful it even knocks me off my feet.

When you are next near me you are welcome to come and look.

Blimey thats a lot of fence lol and thanks for the offer! Amazing how nature thwarts us isnt it lol. Like squirrels. True survivors.

 

[Midland Beek]

.......................

 

[oliver90owner]

Seems as though you need a top strand energised at about five Joules. That should surprise reynard if it gets up there.

 

[ashleybee]

and i'd prob put 2 strands up.
As for all the talk about the Rspca I first hand experiance of them releasing foxes on my shoot and aparently they didn't like me shooting them in the same field they were releasing them in and called the police out it rather spoilt my afternoons sport. That was in 2003 and I'm sure they have stopped releasing them now................NOT its the only place I shot foxes that don't smell at all seems rather strange and throws the terriers off at times too.
Just my little bit.