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The co-op vanishing of the bees campaign

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goodbobby 

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Have you seen this recent campaign started by the Co-Operative Society? If I was cynical I would think that it was part of a PR stunt,but having lived in that dodgy world in a previous existence, I know that they have successfully run long term campaigns for ethical investment previously over external investment in South Africa during Apartheid and a number of others involving Armament supplies and other tricky issues, so are concerned players............ see http://vanishingbees.co.uk/ ....This could be a very important step forward! The film is on general release from 9th of October.
 

Brosville 

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It's a sad old world whereby (an albeit ethically-run) supermarket is doing far more for bees than the BBKA, which seems far more interested in helping their buddies in the agrochemical industry.......
It's a good campaign - full marks, they have my support!
 

admin 

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I did look to see when the showing would be in my area,the cost would be £9.10 for a seat :svengo:

The last time I went to the cinema was in 1978 and this is what they had in the pit:
 

Brosville 

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"Duke of Yorks Cinema in Brighton are running 'The Vanishing of the Bees' on Tuesday 13th October at 8.30 pm" for anyone in the area.
 

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The press comment from the BBKA regarding the film:

"The answers are still inconclusive".
 

Heather 

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"Duke of Yorks Cinema in Brighton are running 'The Vanishing of the Bees' on Tuesday 13th October at 8.30 pm" for anyone in the area.

and they are siting a bee hive on their roof!!
 
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Brosville 

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augurs well! - sounds like it's rattled them :cheers2:

, not the cinema...........
 
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tidymeup 

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some of the footage in the trailer is shared with a program on the bbc a few months back called who killed the honey bee. Is this the same or an extension of the one shown on the bbc ?
 

Melbourne12 

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augurs well! - sounds like it's rattled them :cheers2:

, not the cinema...........
We were intending to see this film next weekend, since it sounded like an unbiased documentary. But is it just anti-agrochemical propaganda? I don't want to waste time on nonsense.
 

Brosville 

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no, it's anti-ignorance, and anti-propaganda - it's an attempt to get at the unvarnished truth, unswayed by the power of the rich lobby groups........ to not watch the film because of assumed bias is akin to bookburning.... Surely watch the film, THEN if you detect "bias", grizzle about it!
 

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augurs well! - sounds like it's rattled them :cheers2:

, not the cinema...........
The logo above is the view of Brosville,not the view of the forum or its members..
 

Brosville 

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can't see why there should be any problem at all with the logo - it proudly underlines the entirely honourable association of an esteemed manufacturer of agrochemical toxins with a national association for all UK beekeepers - they are obviously rightly proud, open and honest about that association, and it couldn't possibly be open to misinterpretation in any way whatsoever........completely innocent, above board and totally praiseworthy in all respects......
 

Melbourne12 

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no, it's anti-ignorance, and anti-propaganda - it's an attempt to get at the unvarnished truth, unswayed by the power of the rich lobby groups........ to not watch the film because of assumed bias is akin to bookburning.... Surely watch the film, THEN if you detect "bias", grizzle about it!

But is it unswayed by the power of ALL lobby groups?

A hard-bitten and experienced journalist once warned me against any reporting of what purported to be "truth". The job of journalism (which includes documentary films) is to present the facts, he said. The reader or viewer can then assess the truth.

It seemed to me that the Co-op initiative was an excellent one. They said they were giving money to fund the research into the effect of pesticides on bees. I gave them the benefit of the doubt that it was unbiased "good science".

If it's just a lot of silly Marxist posturing then I'm not interested. I got over the 1960s about 40 years ago.
 

Brosville 

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I fail to understand why a film that is attempting to find out the truth about what's happening to bees has got to do with "Marxist posturing"...... could you possibly explain your reasoning, it's failing to compute :)
If I were you, with your obvious unbiased and open-minded approach to things,and obviously correct view about "truth-seekers" - I'd be seeking out an organisation spreading lies about the whole affair - "untruths unlimited" perchance........
Wanders off wondering if Marxist posturing is anything like doing Quasimodo impressions, or perhaps it's more like Marcel Marceau.... (should you use a silencer when shooting mimes?.......)
 

Melbourne12 

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Bad science really gets under my skin. I can't help it. I blame the way I was brought up.

Sarcasm, for similar reasons, doesn't.

I can see that if there seems to be an increase in the number of bee colonies failing to survive, for unknown reasons, then it is reasonable to seek the cause.

In seeking the cause, it is further reasonable to postulate a cause and test for it (always remembering that there may be a multiplicity of contributory factors). In doing so we need good experimental design, unbiased data, and impeccable statistical analysis.

This is elementary schoolboy stuff. It will enable us to see the facts, and from them, if we wish, the truth. The truth may influence our behaviour.

I am quite familiar with the ways in which commercial laboratories can selectively present results to persuade consumers and the general public of the worth of their products.

But I'm also familiar with the irrelevant arguments presented by political or social pressure groups. The argument always seems to be that corporations (in this case agrochemical companies) exist solely to oppress and exploit. It is axiomatic that their motivation is evil. That is a Marxist argument. I've seen an (apparently serious) case put forward on another beekeeping forum that one company is deliberately killing bees because their board members are Nazis.

I'm sure it's huge fun if you like that sort of thing. It's just that, personally, I'd be embarrassed to join in.
 

Brosville 

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Science is science - "bad science" isn't science.........
I was nearly with you there for a moment or two, until you wandered off into Dada land again - I still cannot for the life of me understand why a dislike of "bent" companies is in any way "Marxist", or for that matter as to why a dislike/distrust of the bad effects of agrochemicals should brand one as being right/left or for that matter, stringvestite!
Companies exist to make a profit, some companies have a long history of dirty dealing, some are entirely straightforward - it is therefore entirely reasonable to extrapolate that they may well be "at it again" - to ignore history means we are destined to make all the same mistakes again - clutter all to do with politics or some strange conspiracy theories.
I've seen people crippled and killed by agrochemicals in the past (organophosphates being just one) - all the while the companies weaselled how safe they were for years, backed up by their buddies in the Min of Ag and Fish, and the government. (This is no leftie bedwetter flight of fancy, it is factual) - eventually, when the body-count got too high to hush up any more it was withdrawn from "civilised" markets - they still make the damn stuff, and sell it to third-world countries!
This doesn't suggest to me that morals are particularly high on their priorities list......
What we NEED (but won't get) is real unbiased scientific research, totally independently funded (not by the likes of Syngenta, as per the recent announcement).
IF organisations like the Co-op wish to fund their own research, and tell their researchers to look in the direction of the possibility of pesticide involvement, I can only see it as "balancing" the bottomless pits of money and influence possessed and used by the "icide" manufacturers.
As I said, science is science - if it's properly done, there is no argument - I'm not in the least "anti" science, just the wholesale abuse of it........
 

Somerford 

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I was lucky enough to recieve a few packets of free 'bee friendly' flower seed from my local co-op earlier this year.

I would agree with the earlier statement that they are the only supermarket that appears to give a hoot about the plight of the honey bee. I would go further and suggest that they are alone among big business to actually do something tangible, I would challenge that the rest of the UK PLC couldn't give a monkeys.

Whether or not the film adds anything new to the arguement, I suspect that the converted will probably be the only people to view it. Rather like the film 'An Inconvenient Truth' by Mr Gore.

A fews years on and I really can't see that any government has taken even the blindest bit of notice about that film.

Just look at the response by the governments of the world to the world recession. Spend and manufacture our way out of recession. Hardly a blind bit of notice to the damage this will further cause the planet.

I hate to say it but population control will be the only way forward. A huge reduction in the human population, along with a return to an extensive agrarian economy might save this planet we live on.

Will we change our behaviour ? No more fake tan, shopping for needless consumer goods, no more gas guzzlers, no more USA ??

I hate to say it , but we are doomed.
 

Brosville 

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unfortunately, I fear you're right - as Will Self put it very succinctly -
"we're toast"...........
 

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