The black bee

[Poly Hive]

The measurement will tell you if they are AMM or close to, and if they are then the measurements will be the same or similar to those I got in Scotland.

So it cannot tell you the nationality but can show you which race they are.

PH

 

[wilderness]

the reason i went to wing morpholigy was i wanted to know what sort of bee i have so i can decided on thier powers as a breeding stock. i wanted to know as well if they are black english bees or just plain dark bees plus i wanted some idea of thier back ground breed, what i have decided apon is that they are very dark and are of the good nature of a bee that i like so there for i shall use them to breed from and with the occasional outside breed queen to keep the line breeding to a minium i shall use them as the base for my expansion programe

I've done some work on wing morphology and found a couple of programs from Sweden that take some of the hard work out of the measurements and calculations. A negative discoidal shift is a pretty good indicator of AMM.

I've found some "near" AMM in a couple of our local association colonies by morphometric measurements. The "old" boys said they looked and handled like the black bee.

I'd be happy to run some measurements on your bees. Maybe after Xmas send me some that you are thinking of breeding from.

 

[Poly Hive]

What sort of figure have you got?

PH

 

[wilderness]

Colony 1
Discoidal shift all negative ranging from -4 to -8

Cubital Index between 1.0 to 1.9

Hantel Index between 0.75 to 0.9

Colony 2
Discoidal shift all negative ranging from -0.5 to -4

Cubital Index between 1.5 to 2.2

Hantel Index between 0.8 to 0.9

Only sampled 7 wings from each colony so I guess a statistician would pour scorn on my conclusions.

 

[oliver90owner]

I guess a statistician would pour scorn on my conclusions.

D*mn right they would! Might argue it is just one of the mating drones concerned, or something like that as well.

But as they say 'there are lies, d*amned lies and statistics' so you are probably OK in avoiding getting as far as the statistics. The 'old boys' are likely a good indicator along with your measurements.

I admire those that are struggling to keep these strains alive and kicking. Me? I go with the local ones, whatever I get, as long as they collect honey and don't bite too much! I might join the wing morphology and dna groups after I retire, but too much trouble at the present time!

Regards, RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

If you are getting -8 then it is looking very good. From memory the BIBBA fan ended at 8, though I had ones from Morayshire that were past that so more likely-10. They were though definitely very black and exhibited all the characteristics of the classic AMM.

I would put 15 or so on a slide and project them on a wall, though I see that now a scanner is being used and it's possible to use electronics for the whole business.

Really it's about time BIBBA woke up and got something actually done.

PH

 

[BKF Admin]

Has anyone got any results for the guy in Sussex who is selling AMM next year?

 

[Poly Hive]

Nope.

I will have to get another fan and do some readings on the AMM Q I bought from Bickerstaffes this year.

PH

 

[wilderness]

I would put 15 or so on a slide and project them on a wall, though I see that now a scanner is being used and it's possible to use electronics for the whole business.
PH

PH, I use a microscope with a web cam built in. It saves images as .jpg. These can be imported into a couple of programs that have been adapted from dendrochronology. The programs are free from the web.

 

[Finno]

@Snoop.....those people will gladly test bees for disease only They cannot carry out morphometry. Google BIBBA for info....

P F

 

[mbc]

Does anyone know if sussex uni/Prof Ratnieks are offering amm queens this coming season?

 

[dilys]

I doubt it. Apparently he is having to raise queens by II now that he has moved out of a black bee region.

Dil

 

[jezd]

i have been chasing Ratneiks for ages (long story), anyone going to the event he is running in April?

at Sussex University

 

[clive]

copy
correct me if iam wrong but i think i recall you have used bikerstaffs amm if that is correct.

do some readings on the AMM Q I bought from Bickerstaffes this year


What makes you think bickerstaff sells the black queen AMM/1, Don’t he get his queens imported from Margarita batsis Greece,---is anybody actully selling the old true black queen bee nowadays in the UK lots rubish of black queens about, but no pure AMM ---died out years ago So my bible tells me .

 

[hedgerow pete]

I am affraid that your bibble might need a little updating clive there are strains of amm about , but whether you can buy new queens or nucs is a differant matter, as poly hive will tell you go north over the wall and there are many strains about in scotland and some abroad and some in the uk, the only issue is how pure are they and whether you can buy them.

the best option that i have seen is a guy that advertised in on of the bee mags last year he is offering amm queens for £85 this year i dont know whether thay are any good or not but it is an option.

another one is to find some one on one of the islands as they would still be pretty pure aswell
so plenty of options its just where ? that causes the issues. I tried last year to find a supplier of four queens but they had to have a great wing morph test and would realy want a dna test as well, for a queen and afew ladies in waiting i was looking at paying £100 each as i wanted them as breeding stock so a large outlay for a life times work this seemed cheap to me

 

[Poly Hive]

Change your bible Clive as it is telling you porkys.

PH

 

[mbc]

just seen an advert for welsh dark queens for £20 each in The Welsh Beekeeper

 

[BKF Admin]

Any members ever purchased queens from David Campbell?

 

[hedgerow pete]

mbc can you email some details over to me please, as i am very interested

 

[mbc]

mbc can you email some details over to me please, as i am very interested

Ricky Wilson
Cych Valley Honey Farm
[email protected]
01239 814875

I hear PembsBKA got a grant for AI equipment- maybe something to do with this

ps.

Has anyone seen my bee joke on the adult forum? I'm quite proud of it (even if its naff!) and its hardly had any views!