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Mike a 

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When the colony is strong enough and there is a break in the nectar flow in your area for me that's now and I have two colonies which need it done as the combs are dark and look bad.

I prefer a full shock swarm to all new frames and I accept the hit on that colony but most people opt for a bailey change.
 

MuswellMetro 

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When the colony is strong enough and there is a break in the nectar flow in your area for me that's now and I have two colonies which need it done as the combs are dark and look bad.

I prefer a full shock swarm to new frames and I accept the hit on that colony but most people opt for a bailey change.

i did spring shook swarm but before ihave always done bailey changes

i chose it as supposidly it also acts as a swarm control method and i think the dutch do shook swarms every year...any veiws on shook swarm for swarm control???

one old brood frame with eggs plus 10 foundation, shook swarm all then save the main brood frames in a nuc ( a day to get brood covered in bees above the shook hive) then feed them back their stores scrapped out above the crown board

used the nuc not for a split but scrubbed out any QC at 14 days and re combine at 25 days
 
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the naked beekeeper 

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If you have a strong colony, you could put a 14x12 under your current brood box, with a QX between the two, make sure she is in the bottom 14x12 and she will gradually lay it up as they draw it out and you can take the top brood box away when the brood has hatched or make a split from it.
 

ryan_220 

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If you have a strong colony, you could put a 14x12 under your current brood box, with a QX between the two, make sure she is in the bottom 14x12 and she will gradually lay it up as they draw it out and you can take the top brood box away when the brood has hatched or make a split from it.
That sounds the best way, but i have WBC hives and i dont have any free outter lifts knocking about to keep rain out. Could i just leave the lifts off or maybe just leave one missing for 4-5 weeks or would rain get in even with the roof on and most the lifts ?

So iam guessing leaveing me with the shock swarm or bailey change is only really open for me ?
 

Rosti 

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If you have a strong colony, you could put a 14x12 under your current brood box, with a QX between the two, make sure she is in the bottom 14x12 and she will gradually lay it up as they draw it out and you can take the top brood box away when the brood has hatched or make a split from it.
Exactly what I have done this year, still in the process of transistion as we speak. Final stage will be to place an empty super, then a crown, then the old std national above it and let them move remaining stores down (after brood has gone of course!).

Newest of the standard brood frames to be kept for bait hives next year!
 

Polyanwood 

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Could i just leave the lifts off or maybe just leave one missing for 4-5 weeks or would rain get in even with the roof on and most the lifts ?
Can't resist a little teasing.......

Now you're taking Ryan. I can see that attendance at the silly but quite nice looking hives group is working. I think this is the way to go. Inspirational. Just leave off the lifts and you have a National.:smilielol5:
 

Black Comb 

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I changed from national to L/s this year and put the l/s on top, no Q/E at first as once the frames were drawn she started laying up top and I then put the Q/E on. Worked fine.

Must admit if i ever have to do it again will try shook swarm as it cuts out a lot of faffing.
 

chalkie 

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If you have a strong colony, you could put a 14x12 under your current brood box, with a QX between the two, make sure she is in the bottom 14x12 and she will gradually lay it up as they draw it out and you can take the top brood box away when the brood has hatched or make a split from it.
I'm currently doing this but was advised to put the new 14x12 on top of old brood then once queen is laying up in the 14x12 put QX between the 2 making sure queen is in the top then remove old brood box 21 days later.
 

m100 

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I've found they are very reluctant to draw 14x12 to the bottom corners without then chewing holes in it - possibly made worse by open mesh floors.

So my method is 14x12 on top, QE between, let them draw foundation right to the bottom corners, doesn't matter if they partly fill it with honey, rotate the frames to bring the outer ones to the middle to ensure they all get drawn.

Now remove the QE, let the queen migrate upwards, when there is some sealed brood in the 14x12 find the queen and place her in the 14x12, put a QE on top and the national above the QE either directly or if there is a flow on, put it above a super.

Check the old national box very regularly for queen cells and let any drones out every day or so.

Finally put the now near empty national above a crownboard with a super without any frames in it immediately below and let them rob the frames out.
 

oliver90owner 

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New box on top is probably favourite. They will then move any stores from the box underneath to above the brood nest.

Regards, RAB
 

chalkie 

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When't to take away the brood box from underneath yesterday and it was quite heavy as being filled with honey so obviously not taking stores upwards to the super, what should i do with this now, also queen cells in the new 14x12 :confused: shook swarm next time me thinks.
 

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