Switching hive types

[CaptainCymru]

I came accross an article regarding easy switching of hive types whereby you essentially use an adaptor crown board with a large hole and queen excluder followed by your new hive type brood box . You then catch the queen with a suitable cage and release her into the new hive . All the old brood hatches out and the lot migrate up into the new hive .Has anyone had success with this ? I'm aware you can just cut and shut frames but this method seems simple....perhaps too simple .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I came accross an article regarding easy switching of hive types whereby you essentially use an adaptor crown board with a large hole and queen excluder followed by your new hive type brood box . You then catch the queen with a suitable cage and release her into the new hive . All the old brood hatches out and the lot migrate up into the new hive .Has anyone had success with this ? I'm aware you can just cut and shut frames but this method seems simple....perhaps too simple .

No neede for the QX, the queen will move up of her own volition

 

[CaptainCymru]

No neede for the QX, the queen will move up of her own volition

Will she not move back down to lay in the old boxes though ?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Will she not move back down to lay in the old boxes though ?

When you've noticed she's moved up,I'm presuming your starting from foundation? Which could take a couple of weeks for it to be drawn out reverse boxes and then put a QX on making sure she is in the now bottom box.

What hive type are you wanting to change to?
Apologies jbm for answering a question for you.

 

[CaptainCymru]

When you've noticed she's moved up,I'm presuming your starting from foundation? Which could take a couple of weeks for it to be drawn out reverse boxes and then put a QX on making sure she is in the now bottom box.

What hive type are you wanting to change to?
Apologies jbm for answering a question for you.

Going from National brood into a Jumbo Lang 6 frame Nuc ( same area as national brood) , the whole story is Im moving down to the south west and the big double brood national is heavy as , Also got a problem with cross comb in lower box that im itching to sort out. Was hoping by moving them into the light nuc they are easier to transport , might stop swarm prep and i can then use my nationals as bait hives later on. The cross comb is seriously bad and its bugging me.Getting them into the poly nucs would be ace.Give me chance to do some maintenance on the Nationals , clean out the cross comb , use the old brood comb as bait too.

 

[Ian123]

Simply get a sheet of ply and cut to largest external dimensions, then place smaller box on and draw internal dimensions. Cut out the matching area, if your lucky bee space will work I’ve gone from Lang to national. You can leave for a week if you wish then add excluder. Those thin galvanised can just be sat on the ply or even those cheap plastic, the few mm gap makes little odds unless weather is incredibly bad. Once there into the new box slide the excluder in once you’ve ensured queen is there. It’s simply then a case of waiting for brood to emerge.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Good luck with the move captain, after finding out a bit more about your situation Ian123 has given you a sound option.

 

[madasafish]

Going from National brood into a Jumbo Lang 6 frame Nuc ( same area as national brood) , the whole story is Im moving down to the south west and the big double brood national is heavy as ,

I did this in 2015 after being given two national hives to replace those lost from AFB.
Mark out the base of a Langstroth brood box on card/paper. Mark out on the same card the brood box of a national hgive so they overlap. This gives you a template for a National to Langstroth convertor made of 5mm or similar plywood.. cut out the centre and just leave the outlies of the boxes.

You can now place an empty Lang on top of your full national and let the bees migrate upwards. When the Q is laying in the top box, palce a QE over the lower box - and ensure the Q is in the top box.
When all brood in bottom box has emerged , remove it.

Simples. Best done witha flow on - or feed as I assume you will have foundation only in top box. If they seem slow in moving up, cable tie a national frame with sealed brood to a Lang top bar and place in centre of top box.

(I painted the plywood with wood stain or yacht varnish as it weathers (and eventually breaks. WBP ply is essential.)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Will she not move back down to lay in the old boxes though ?

It's at that time you put the QX in, not before they've drawn out the top box, what's the point of chasing the queen around the bottom box whith the chance of damaging her?

 

[CaptainCymru]

Thank you for all your help guys , will be good to sort it out . I plan to do it first week of April to coincide with 3 weeks of leave I have. Will stick my feeder on to simulate a flow if it hasnt started.

 

[Hux70]

Ive been thinking about this recently.. I have a Dadant hive that I struggle to stop swarming. My other hives are National so the size difference is a problem. My thought was to make an adapter so I could put a National brood onto the Dadant brood to create more space during swarm season and potentially end up with a new colony. Would this work do you think??

 

[ericbeaumont]

I have a Dadant hive that I struggle to stop swarming

The Dadant is not responsible for swarming. How do you run the colony and how does the Dadant queen differ from those in the Nationals?

 

[user 819]

All hives to a degree will swarm, one can't pin it to a particular hive so one has to look at other aspects that induces it.

 

[Hux70]

The problem is I'm unable to split the colony as all my other equipment is National and Dadant frames wont fit. The only space i can give them is an empty super of foundation. Hence the idea of being able to add a National brood on top. Is there anything else I could try? Ideally all my kit should be the same but this was my first hive aquired before i knew anything about the different sizes.

 

[CaptainCymru]

The problem is I'm unable to split the colony as all my other equipment is National and Dadant frames wont fit. The only space i can give them is an empty super of foundation. Hence the idea of being able to add a National brood on top. Is there anything else I could try? Ideally all my kit should be the same but this was my first hive aquired before i knew anything about the different sizes.

Shook swarm Into the national?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The problem is I'm unable to split the colony as all my other equipment is National and Dadant frames wont fit.

Just chucking more space on is not going to stop them swarming, you have to take some kind of proactive action, if you are going to carry on with Dadants, you need to buy more kit

 

[pargyle]

Just chucking more space on is not going to stop them swarming, you have to take some kind of proactive action, if you are going to carry on with Dadants, you need to buy more kit

Yes ... or get rid of the Dadant ... I would go for the option above at post #8 abive, It's a much kinder way than a shook swarm, you won't lose any brood and if they have any stores in the Dadant you can give them a scratch and they wll move them up - win win all round.

 

[ChrisS]

Yes ... or get rid of the Dadant ... I would go for the option above at post #8 abive, It's a much kinder way than a shook swarm, you won't lose any brood and if they have any stores in the Dadant you can give them a scratch and they wll move them up - win win all round.

Also known as a Bailey Comb Change in these parts. Great technique, I use it every year on a few hives. Especially useful for transferring colonies between National and Commercial boxes as no need for a plywood converter.

Having said that, I sometimes make increase when there's a flow on by doing a shook swarm (after caging the queen) and then replacing the supers full of house bees on the old brood box. They happily raise new queen cells and tend the remaining brood, while her maj and the shook swarm establish themselves as a new colony. Just need to ensure the right balance of bees between old and new colonies.

 

[Boston Bees]

Having said that, I sometimes make increase when there's a flow on by doing a shook swarm (after caging the queen) and then replacing the supers full of house bees on the old brood box. They happily raise new queen cells and tend the remaining brood, while her maj and the shook swarm establish themselves as a new colony. Just need to ensure the right balance of bees between old and new colonies.

Confused but curious.

So you cage the queen, then just shake the brood box frames (but not the supers) into a new box with foundation in? And then put the queen into that new box. And then the supers go back on the original box (which contains the brood frames with brood on). And the bees that happened to be in the supers then come down and raise QCs?

Which of these boxes is on the original location (and thus receives the flying bees)?

Why is this better than the traditional "artificial swarm" method of moving the hive to a new location, and putting the queen in a new box, with foundation, in the original location, so the flying bees join her and start from scratch? It avoids the shaking ..... ?

Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Unless is EFB, shook swarm is never the answer - awful way to treat bees