Swarm removal from inside a flat roof

[Aneebe]

I've just visited a young couple who watched a swarm (2 days ago) enter their flat roof above the kitchen extension. The narrow soffit type space does have a wire mesh fitted presumably to stop insects entering but it's a terrible job and has left a bee width slit stretching almost the length of the wall.
They are absolutely cash strapped and asking for options. They tried to call pest exterminators but are finding a call out a 3 week wait typically.
So.... (and I hate this) - could they spray them/ entombed them? Surely quite apart from being a horrible thing to do, the mass of bee bodies/brood and wax might decompose and cause a mess. Would it smell and or stain through the plaster board.
OR (I'm recalling vaguely) does sealing the slit and then fixing a one way mesh cone over a small remaining entrance work to bleed them off? I seem to recall a method mentioned doing this and also giving them a nuc with a frame of open brood hanging close by to go in to.
Sorry I'm sounding vague. I'd always left this to others but now it's close to home and causing considerable distress to this couple. It's directly above their kitchen door which doesn't help. I'd gladly give them the materials and help if this would save them a financial blow.
Any suggestions very gratefully received (and no, they're NOT my bees lol).

 

[Sutty]

What you are describing is a "trap out", do a search on here and you should find details.
It's just possible you may be able to create a mass exodus if you arrange a dark box near the entrance and can squirt some bee-go or benzaldehyde through a small hole drilled in the kitchen ceiling on the opposite side of the nest to the entrance.

 

[Aneebe]

What you are describing is a "trap out", do a search on here and you should find details.
It's just possible you may be able to create a mass exodus if you arrange a dark box near the entrance and can squirt some bee-go or benzaldehyde through a small hole drilled in the kitchen ceiling on the opposite side of the nest to the entrance.

Thank you Sutty. It's feels like a horribly long shot. They're dreading the expense but I feel I have to help try mean time. Much appreciated.

 

[pargyle]

Leaving them in place and sealing them up will result in them dying and rotting .. so yes, there's the possibility of smells and staining .

A trap out is the only way but you will have to make sure that there is only one place they can get out - and that's through the trap out cone. Hopefully, with a box adjacent with some drawn frames in it the bees will take up residence. Sometimes the queen will join them - sometimes they don't but at least as you get rid of all the workers you are left with only a few bees left in situ which can be sealed up as they will die out as they run out of food.

Lots of videos on you tube if you google Bee Trap out.

These 'professionals' give all the downsides ...

https://swarmcatcher.co.uk/honey-bee-trapouts/

And here's how it can work:

 

[warsaw_hive]

You make a small hole in the plasterboard ceiling (screwdriver + Stanley knife will do it) and shove the hoover pipe up there. A bit of poly filler and paint and you'll never know they were there.

They wouldn't have made too much comb yet, so being serious you could probably extract them with a fist sized hole. I've done that with a newly arrived swarm in a cavity wall/roof area that we accessed via the attic. The home owner made the hole with his hammer drill (he wasn't scared of bees at all) and then I first tried smoking them out. They did leave, but just clustered outside their exterior entrance which was out of reach of ladders we had. So we made the hole a bit bigger and I just put my hand through the hole into the cavity and scooped them out. Took one sting on the first scoopful, so put some marigolds on and I don't think I was stung after that. Your bees having been there a bit longer might not be so obliging.

If you do any of the above then obviously take precautions. Turn off any electric circuits that could potentially run through the roof void (lights/possibly kitchen ring/oven), look out for any pipes etc. If you have to use a smoker then make sure it is very cold smoke and not spitting out embers.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I would try a trap out provided you can make sure the mesh cone is the only exit. It should work quite quickly as they won’t have much stores yet.
I’m doing one at the moment but the colony has been there for years so I’m thinking it may take several months.

 

[ericbeaumont]

asking for options.

A trap- out is an uncertain method and does take at least 6 weeks, so may not suit your friends.

It's a one-day job to cut out the ceiling plaster board, remove the nest, bee vac the bees and clean up; I do several a season and charge £300 a day (inc. teenager pay).

To do the job smoothly one must have a working knowledge of roof construction, half a car load of kit and a dogged determination to keep going when it turns out that a roofer has bodged the joists and oops! there goes the queen.

Sidekick is essential to make work light, but even so a ten-hour day - that finishes when flying has ended - is a slog; my sidekick is calm, technically capable and doesn't complain too much, as long as there's a powerpoint to charge his phone. He does arrive unfed, so I have to put fuel in the tank...



That is 30% of a nest that had been there a month; use a gun to check for wiring & pipes, or saw plasterboard delicately.



Teenager jigsaw skills; bees all off first.

View attachment VID-20240624-WA0009~2.mp4

 

[Aneebe]

Leaving them in place and sealing them up will result in them dying and rotting .. so yes, there's the possibility of smells and staining .

A trap out is the only way but you will have to make sure that there is only one place they can get out

Thank you so much - having been back to the property with torch etc it's a pretty bodged job so there's essentially a gap for most of the length of the roof but it's under a very narrow vent with direly ill-fitted bits of rusting mesh inside it. I tried to photograph but it was against the light etc. I've told them they need that addressed (probably with a strip externally over the whole lot or the same thing will happen again). We heard back from an exterminator who said he'd just spray! I'm totally in agreement re the future staining etc!

 

[Aneebe]

You make a small hole in the plasterboard ceiling (screwdriver + Stanley knife will do it) and shove the hoover pipe up there. A bit of poly filler and paint and you'll never know they were there.

Thank you - I'd have been up for that. That's a good compromise. Going to pass that on to them tomorrow. They can make the holes if they want to. I'll not be cutting into anything

 

[Aneebe]

To do the job smoothly one must have a working knowledge of roof construction, half a car load of kit and a dogged determination to keep going when it turns out that a roofer has bodged the joists and oops! there goes the queen.

Absolutely and from the state of the outside vents, who knows what the score is internally. Thanks again to you and everyone for all these solutions. I have enough DIY that I could try a trap out but the volume of bees just overhead at their back door today really says that's not on simply for where it is AND also it would be very hard to ensure a single entrance alas. Typical!

 

[Newbeeneil]

A trap- out is an uncertain method and does take at least 6 weeks, so may not suit your friends.

It's a one-day job to cut out the ceiling plaster board, remove the nest, bee vac the bees and clean up; I do several a season and charge £300 a day (inc. teenager pay).

To do the job smoothly one must have a working knowledge of roof construction, half a car load of kit and a dogged determination to keep going when it turns out that a roofer has bodged the joists and oops! there goes the queen.

Sidekick is essential to make work light, but even so a ten-hour day - that finishes when flying has ended - is a slog; my sidekick is calm, technically capable and doesn't complain too much, as long as there's a powerpoint to charge his phone. He does arrive unfed, so I have to put fuel in the tank...

View attachment 40701

That is 30% of a nest that had been there a month; use a gun to check for wiring & pipes, or saw plasterboard delicately.

View attachment 40703

Teenager jigsaw skills; bees all off first.

View attachment 40704

I carried out a cut out yesterday in a plasterboard wall. Just going back now (6am the following morning) to pick up the box that they have hopefully all gone into.

Update - all safely in box, (which is now in my isolation apiary) void filled with fibre insulation and plasterboard screwed in place.

 

[warsaw_hive]

Thank you - I'd have been up for that. That's a good compromise. Going to pass that on to them tomorrow. They can make the holes if they want to. I'll not be cutting into anything

It was sort of tongue in cheek. I suppose it wouldn't be too bad in a Henry, but in a clear plastic cyclone vacuum it would be a bit grim watching the bees whizz around. I'd look up how to make a proper bee vacuum.

 

[Aneebe]

It was sort of tongue in cheek. I suppose it wouldn't be too bad in a Henry, but in a clear plastic cyclone vacuum it would be a bit grim watching the bees whizz around. I'd look up how to make a proper bee vacuum.

I've actually cobbled something last year yes but never have had the opportunity to use it. I'm just very wary when they don't seem to want to break into any structures themselves and don't have the cash to get someone. Tens of thousands of rotting bees may well mean they have to in the future but we shall see. I hate the thought of insecticide.

 

[Just Steve]

Using a vacuum especially a normal domestic one that cannot have the suction greatly reduced will not only collect the bees and possibly kill them, it will pull also nectar and anything else not securely attached into the nozzle to add to the mix. The resulting sticky mess will almost certainly kill the colony and make the clean up of the vacuum used a bit of a b@ll ache or even potentially ruin the machine.

 

[Aneebe]

Using a vacuum especially a normal domestic one that cannot have the suction greatly reduced will not only collect the bees and possibly kill them, it will pull also nectar and anything else not securely attached into the nozzle to add to the mix. The resulting sticky mess will almost certainly kill the colony and make the clean up of the vacuum used a bit of a b@ll ache or even potentially ruin the machine.

It would hence my reply to wsrsaw_hive above

 

[ericbeaumont]

they don't seem to want to break into any structures themselves and don't have the cash to get someone

Well, they must decide which outcome they want: live with the nest or pay for removal by someone with experience.

What skills do they have? Would an exchange of services solve the cash crisis? They might be interior decorators, accountant, or mechanic...

 

[warsaw_hive]

I've actually cobbled something last year yes but never have had the opportunity to use it.

Sounds ideal! Most of the bees should still be in a cluster below any new comb. There could of course be the remains of an old colony up there.

I'm just very wary when they don't seem to want to break into any structures themselves

Yeah I can understand that. I've only done the one extraction from a building and the homeowner was super handy and well up for anything. I went home to get some bee suits, and by the time I'd returned there was already a hole in the wall. Made it very easy and only took half an afternoon with an hour followup the next day. He put everything back together. If I'd had a bee vacuum it would have been very quick. There is though the potential to make more of a mess in a kitchen. Don't melt the worktop with the smoker etc.

 

[Aneebe]

Well, they must decide which outcome they want: live with the nest or pay for removal by someone with experience.

What skills do they have? Would an exchange of services solve the cash crisis? They might be interior decorators, accountant, or mechanic...

Hmm that's an idea. Thank you. I love this forum - let's one explore lots of possibilities that would never have occurred otherwise.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I've just visited a young couple who watched a swarm (2 days ago) enter their flat roof above the kitchen extension. The narrow soffit type space does have a wire mesh fitted presumably to stop insects entering but it's a terrible job and has left a bee width slit stretching almost the length of the wall.
They are absolutely cash strapped and asking for options. They tried to call pest exterminators but are finding a call out a 3 week wait typically.
So.... (and I hate this) - could they spray them/ entombed them? Surely quite apart from being a horrible thing to do, the mass of bee bodies/brood and wax might decompose and cause a mess. Would it smell and or stain through the plaster board.
OR (I'm recalling vaguely) does sealing the slit and then fixing a one way mesh cone over a small remaining entrance work to bleed them off? I seem to recall a method mentioned doing this and also giving them a nuc with a frame of open brood hanging close by to go in to.
Sorry I'm sounding vague. I'd always left this to others but now it's close to home and causing considerable distress to this couple. It's directly above their kitchen door which doesn't help. I'd gladly give them the materials and help if this would save them a financial blow.
Any suggestions very gratefully received (and no, they're NOT my bees lol).

Have they checked their house insurance? Quite possibly that may be their best option.

 

[ericbeaumont]

house insurance

Beware a subsequent increase in premiums.