Swarm mode post demaree

[bees knees]

I have one colony that I did a demaree on. The brood in the top box has now all gone. In the bottom box there is nice brood and eggs and still plenty of space but they seem to have gone into swarm mode - there are a few early q cells with royal jelly in today. Any ideas why this might have happened? Anything I can do now other than prepare to AS? Is it too late to re demaree?

 

[alldigging]

As I understand the demaree process is onoing, not one shuffle round. Were you moving frames from the bottom to the top?

 

[bees knees]

That's what I did originally. I've read different versions of demaree. Some seem to say do just when you feel they may go into swarm mode, some say just do once or twice each season and others say keep swapping boxes back and forth regardless. I'm interested to know what anyone here actually does who uses this method regularly (see my other post). With this one colony though, the method appears to have failed to prevent swarm mode and not quite sure if I can do anything now other than plan for AS which is what I was trying to avoid as we don't really have much spare space!

 

[enrico]

Swap the box' s again and take out the queen cells. That is roughly the idea!
E

 

[YorkshireBees]

Swap the box' s again and take out the queen cells. That is roughly the idea!
E

Also important to not transfer any brood to the new lower box!
Transfer the queen only and you can shake a few frames of bees into the bottom box to make sure she has company.

 

[bees knees]

Thanks guys. Does the new bottom box need to be mostly empty comb / foundation? My current top box to swap it with has rather a lot of honey in it at the moment - if I bruise it maybe they'll take it up to make room?

 

[oliver90owner]

If they are now in swarm mode, watch out! Demaree is not a substitute for an A/S. You basically said that in your post #3, but perhaps did not really understand what you had read (often happens).

 

[masterBK]

I demarreed 26 colonies but only two produced queen cells in the bottom BC (with the queen). There were no swarm cells and they did have plenty of room prior to me doing the Demaree. It may be that with cold nights and just one comb of brood and the queen they clustered on that one comb causing localised congestion affecting pheromone distribution & triggering swarm cell production (just my hypothesis with no real evidence).

 

[oliver90owner]

I wuld guess they were in swarm mode, even if no queen cells at that time.

Eddie Woods and his apidictor might be an interesting topic to investigate - he was predicting swarming, before queen cells were drawn and occupied, back in the 1960s.

 

[bees knees]

If they are now in swarm mode, watch out! Demaree is not a substitute for an A/S. You basically said that in your post #3, but perhaps did not really understand what you had read (often happens).

I understand that demaree is not a substitute for AS and really if already in swarm mode it is too late to demaree. That's why I asked what I should do. I can watch out but what shall I do? Watch them progress in swarm mode and then AS or are other options open to me? Others are suggesting demaree again but do you feel this won't work now - theory says too late - what is experience of others?

 

[bees knees]

I demarreed 26 colonies but only two produced queen cells in the bottom BC (with the queen). There were no swarm cells and they did have plenty of room prior to me doing the Demaree. It may be that with cold nights and just one comb of brood and the queen they clustered on that one comb causing localised congestion affecting pheromone distribution & triggering swarm cell production (just my hypothesis with no real evidence).

So could this resolve if I just destroy the q cells and the weather improves? Or does swarming intention not go away once it's got this far regardless?

 

[Finman]

.
You have now a swarm fever in lower box colony.
It is so diple thst you must do AS to it. Foundations, queen and a brood frame.

Then what to do with demaree hive. It has not swarm fever but it may get if you join the swarm hive brood. And what about its virgin?

1. Move a brood hive 3 m away
2. To old site a foundation hive
3. When foundations are drawn halfway, join the older demaree colony to the foundation hive.

4. Wait that brood hive looses its swarming fever

 

[davnig]

I had exactly the same situation yesterday, demareed, 3 weeks ago, no brood in top box, but had swarm cells in bottom, even though brood only on 3 frames and 4/5 undrawn frames, hey-ho.

So removed demaree'd box from top and used stores from that and Q from bottom to do an AS, nuc method, seemed logical thing to do. We shall see!

 

[bees knees]

Hi everyone. I followed Enrico and YorkshireBees advice last week and did a sort of cross between a re demaree and an AS. Basically we swapped the brood boxes over again but just left the queen with foundation in the bottom box. Inspected today and there are charged uncapped emergency q cells in the top box as expected. In the bottom brood box however nothing has happened at all - no comb building and no laying. Couldn't see the queen below the QE but no evidence of her up top either. I don't think they've swarmed because there are lots of bees. I'm assuming however that either they have swarmed or more likely the q has been lost. I'm thinking the best option now is to pick the frame with the best q cell from the top and transfer it down to the bottom then destroy the others. What does everyone else think?

 

[oliver90owner]

I did not respond further earlier because Finman made it abundantly clear - I thought.

Not a lot of point moving one frame down and leaving the rest up top, is there? The brood up top would be emerged by about or soon afterthe time the queen emerges.

Just move the boxes back to their normal positions and reduce the cells to one in this instance. Only in this instance because normally emergency cells are not followed by issue of a swarm, but this situation is a little more bizzare.