Swarm Management

[BeeJohn]

As this season comes towards an end, my thoughts are turning to next year and swarm management/prevention. Any views, particularly from the more experienced amongst you, on your preference for Pagden, Demaree or Snelgrove? Have generally done artificial swarm using Pagden method.

 

[Erichalfbee]

As this season comes towards an end, my thoughts are turning to next year and swarm management/prevention. Any views, particularly from the more experienced amongst you, on your preference for Pagden, Demaree or Snelgrove? Have generally done artificial swarm using Pagden method.

I Demaree, which is proactive, a couple of colonies and keep it rolling rather than split the colony.
The rest get the queen nuc’d reactively With frames of brood bled off to the requeening box.
Pagden is what I did for the first few years Then tried Wally Shaw’s modified Snelgrove before settling on the methods mentioned.

 

[Amari]

I Demaree, which is proactive, a couple of colonies and keep it rolling rather than split the colony.
The rest get the queen nuc’d reactively With frames of brood bled off to the requeening box.
Pagden is what I did for the first few years Then tried Wally Shaw’s modified Snelgrove before settling on the methods mentioned.

Yes, I've had mixed success with Pagden and Snellgrove ll.
When you've nuc'd the queen you're presumably left with a BB of brood and Q cells. Do you leave all the Q cells (thus assuming that the first Q to emerge will destroy her competitors) or do you reduce them to one?

 

[Erichalfbee]

When you've nuc'd the queen you're presumably left with a BB of brood and Q cells. Do you leave all the Q cells (thus assuming that the first Q to emerge will destroy her competitors) or do you reduce them to one?

Reduce. Always.

 

[StephenT]

As a 2nd year beekeeper this year with one hive, I did a Snelgrove II modified and it worked well until the queen got done in when I moved her over and the parent hive made a new queen out of the “swarm cells” rather than tearing them down. Clearly they were looking to supersede rather than swarm although they had me well and truly fooled. Despite that I requeened and ended up after a while with two good hives. Next year I plan to give Demaree a go when needed and then probably the nucleus method if I do have to do swarm control. Waiting in anticipation and a bit of dread until spring.

 

[Nige.Coll]

I prefer the nuc method or requeening so no swarm management is needed.
I would need a lorry full of stuff to use the pagden or demaree.
As long as you remove one of the triggers you'll be fine regardless of which version you like.
it's all about finding something that suits how you work.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Swarm triangle

 

[robinharman]

Swarm triangle

Triangle of Evil.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Triangle of Evil.

Why?

 

[Finman]

Swarming is bees' way to reproduce as animal. Where the triangel is needed?

 

[hemo]

For a Demaree the same amount or less equipment is required then a 3 or 4 piece nuc. Though a Demaree requires a bit more intervention.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Where the triangel is needed?

It's so that even tone deaf kids can be in the band

 

[Apple]

Reduce. Always.

Fine edged balance....
... If they have made up their mind to swarm, they will!
If you can find the existing queen put her plus a frame of brood and one of food in a 3 frame nuc shake in loads of bees and close the qx ( plus feed!!) move the nuc well away from the main colony!
A clipped queen will possibly save most of the workers from flying off and over the hedge into the great blue yonder1

Demaree/ Padgen etc etc great for a few colonies... impossible for 100's

 

[Curly green finger's]

I allso like the nuc method.
Box reversals - three box system x 4 colonys this season.. Works really well.
Using bigger boxes for the colony ie.. 14x12.
Bleeding brood frames and adding frames to other colonys.
Tried the above using a demaree but I would rather use some of the first methods alot easier.

My approach is being as proactive as possible if the bees allow me to.

 

[Apple]

Swarming is bees' way to reproduce as animal. Where the triangel is needed?

Tradition in some English villiages of running after the swarm ringing a huge triangle to bring down the swarm!

Then you drop it into a box and sell it to a novice for £100.00!!!!

 

[Antipodes]

Tradition in some English villiages of running after the swarm ringing a huge triangle to bring down the swarm!

Then you drop it into a box and sell it to a novice for £100.00!!!!View attachment 22591

It's called "triangling" a swarm.

 

[robinharman]

Why?

Take away one of the three elements and the job is done.

 

[Finman]

Take away one of the three elements and the job is done.

Geometric solution

 

[Amari]

I Demaree, which is proactive, a couple of colonies and keep it rolling rather than split the colony.
The rest get the queen nuc’d reactively With frames of brood bled off to the requeening box.
Pagden is what I did for the first few years Then tried Wally Shaw’s modified Snelgrove before settling on the methods mentioned.

Do you think a Bailey comb exchange would provide proactive swarm control similar to a Demaree? I've recently been lazy in comb renewal so next season I'm thinking of Bayleying most of my hives. Fortunately I have surplus brood boxes because of a policy switch to single bb rather than double.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do you think a Bailey comb exchange would provide proactive swarm control similar to a Demaree? I've recently been lazy in comb renewal so next season I'm thinking of Bayleying most of my hives. Fortunately I have surplus brood boxes because of a policy switch to single bb rather than double.

You'd probably be better off just Demarreeing all the colonies, Doing a modified Bailey isn't going to dampen the swarming urge much, Demarree will, and a bog standard Demarree will leave you with a top box with all the old comb in which you can just extract and then get rid of.