Swarm in Super, Overwinter or Rehouse?

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ruffle

New Bee
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
23
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Location
Peterborough
Hive Type
WBC
Number of Hives
3
SWMBO 'captured' a swarm on the 20th July that had settled on one of our
fence posts;t'was too good an opportunity to miss (I was hundreds of miles
away at the time so couldn't help).

She did a brilliant job of scooping the whole lot into a spare National we had
lying around except that she used a super instead of a brood box (it was
sitting at the top of the pile of hive bits so it's understandable that during
her first swarm wrangling she just picked up the easiest thing).

Having the first quick look at the weekend, they've now drawn around 7 of
the frames from bare foundation and building brace comb below the
super frames. Lots of brood; not so much stores so we're feeding Ambrosia
Liquid Feed.

Should we just leave them in the Super for the Winter or is it worthwhile
adding a brood box and hoping they migrate into that? If we do add a
brood box... should it go above or below the super they're currently using?

TIA.
 
This may get shouted down , but , i would go with a brood box underneath . Warm air rises and all that ..... it will help them to keep the brood you have warm and when the mood takes them they will migrate down the box and use the brood frames .
Might be worth squeezing them to one side of the super and dummy boarding both boxes and a bit of insulation to fill the void . If they have drawn 5 or 6 frames then have the corresponding amount of brood frames under them . Bit of a faff but its getting late in the year to risk shaking them off onto brood frames .
Have you any drawn brood frames you could put underneath to speed things along ?
G
 
Thanks George - looks like you didn't get shouted down :)

I'll go with your suggestion of adding the brood box underneath the
super. Sadly our two other colonies are new this year so I don't
really want to rob them of a frame of brood so we'll see how it goes.
 
The only addition I will suggest is a good thick chunk of insulation over the Crown Board, and please make sure the holes are covered over if it is one of those stupid so called dual purpose ones.

PH
 
Another must do this time of year in that situation is to feed like blazes and bugger the cost.
 
Assuming they are now on super frames in a brood box....

I would get some full size frames in there ASAP. If you don't, they will be murder at the first inspection next year as everything will be joined up. We got into this pickle by leaving a load of national deep frames in a 14x12 overwinter - and the first inspection was a shocker, brace comb all over the place

Pull all of the undrawn super frames and replace with deeps.

If you have drawn deeps, then I would put one in the middle of the brood nest - they should lay it up, and it will provide a guide for the brace comb on either side. At this time of year, an undrawn one in the middle of the brood nest is probably high risk. If they do one, then they will probably do another next week.

I would put drawn or undrawn deeps in amongst the super frames used for stores - again, the bees won't mind, and will simply start storing in there. Again, this will give more structure to the brace comb.

Yes, feed as much as they need (but not too much), and keep them warm.
 
How about putting a brood box with foundation on top and feeding them like crazy. Hopefully they will draw the foundation and put a nice arch of stores at the top. Then over the autumn/winter, they should migrate upwards into the brood box and the super will end up empty.
 
Assuming they are now on super frames in a brood box....

No they're super frames in a super. SWMBO just picked up a super
full of frames instead of the brood box and dumped the swarm into it. By
the time I returned home, several days later, they'd already drawn out
a couple of frames and filled them with brood; so I didn't want to destroy
their hard work.

Thinking about it now.... what I should have done was to put the drawn
super size frames into a brood box with undrawn brood frames either side...
but I didn't :(

They're taking Ambrosia like crazy and there's lots of pollen being
brought in by the foragers so I'm hoping that when I add the undrawn
brood box below the current super they'll at least think about drawing
some comb in it.
 
Assuming they are now on super frames in a brood box....

I would get some full size frames in there ASAP. If you don't, they will be murder at the first inspection next year as everything will be joined up. We got into this pickle by leaving a load of national deep frames in a 14x12 overwinter - and the first inspection was a shocker, brace comb all over the place

Pull all of the undrawn super frames and replace with deeps.

If you have drawn deeps, then I would put one in the middle of the brood nest - they should lay it up, and it will provide a guide for the brace comb on either side. At this time of year, an undrawn one in the middle of the brood nest is probably high risk. If they do one, then they will probably do another next week.

I would put drawn or undrawn deeps in amongst the super frames used for stores - again, the bees won't mind, and will simply start storing in there. Again, this will give more structure to the brace comb.

Yes, feed as much as they need (but not too much), and keep them warm.

:iagree:

If they are in a super at the moment, move the frames into a brood box and proceed as above.

There seems little point in placing a brood box full of foundation under them. They aren't in 'new swarm' wax mode now, and drawing combs will be slowing down at this stage of the year anyway. - No point in having an empty box there all winter collecting earwigs and wax moth. They will winter cluster on the drawn comb and near the stores, not on new foundation.

Note the comments about top insulation assume that you have a mesh floor.

BUT I have successfully overwintered colonies housed just in a super... And when I have used super frames in brood boxes the little buzzers have often obligingly drawn neat comb below the bar to near the floor without burr or brace, even when not between brood frames or boards.

Good luck. :)
 
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That's more like it! Different opinions :) :)

So to summarise; I've got the following options:

A) Leave them in the super over winter and somehow get them into a brood next spring.
B) Put undrawn brood box underneath the super and hope they migrate down to it.
C) Put undrawn brood box over the super and hope they migrate up into it.
D) Put the drawn super frames in the middle of a brood box with brood frames either side and somehow change the super frames to brood size next spring.

Hmmmmm.

As the final intent would be to run them on a brood and a half option D actually sounds like the favorite as once things kick off next year I can move the super frames up and move any drawn brood frames towards the center of the brood box. Does that sound sensible?



PS - The comments on insulation noted; yes it's an OMF. I've got one of the thin space blanket black/silver type quilts and I'm planning on blagging some Celotex, cutting a hole in the middle for the feeder/fondant and sticking that under the space blanket quilt.
 
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...As the final intent would be to run them on a brood and a half option D actually sounds like the favorite as once things kick off next year I can move the super frames up and move any drawn brood frames towards the center of the brood box. Does that sound sensible?...

Yes.

And the insulation is fine tuning really.
 
What, 11 brood frames?

Not to late to draw foundation Swarm,bees will draw foundation even when the ivy is in flow.....11 brood frames or even more at the moment, especiallyfor strong colonys on the heather, or balsam perhaps,no problem.
 

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