Swarm control with nuc box

[TomH]

My question stems from a colony I inspected yesterday, 6-7 queen cells, polished inside but not charged, and no eggs in the QCs that I could see. My plan at the time was to nuc the queen, but I could not for the life of me find her... It's a poly hive, brood and a half with one super on. As the cells weren't charged, I figured i've got a few days breathing space, but need to get back in there ASAP, so I closed them up and will try again.

I will try and find her again today or tomorrow, and continue as per the nucleus method, but i'm needing a back up plan if I fail again. My question is, is a 6 frame poly nuc too small to contain the flying bees, if I was to carry out a split, without finding the queen? As per the NBU instructions:

https://nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=1077

All the instructions I have read are for placing a full brood box on the original site, so wondering if there is a way to carry it out with a only a 6 frame nuc? I have a BS honeybees nuc, so I could buy a maismore 6 frame brood box for the top which would give more space? If needed I can do it as per instructions with a full hive, but just trying to minimise the amount of kit I have to lug about, hence wondering if there is a way to use the nuc box.

Thanks

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes. You can double brood the nuc

 

[Boston Bees]

My question stems from a colony I inspected yesterday, 6-7 queen cells, polished inside but not charged, and no eggs in the QCs that I could see. My plan at the time was to nuc the queen, but I could not for the life of me find her... It's a poly hive, brood and a half with one super on. As the cells weren't charged, I figured i've got a few days breathing space, but need to get back in there ASAP, so I closed them up and will try again.

I will try and find her again today or tomorrow, and continue as per the nucleus method, but i'm needing a back up plan if I fail again. My question is, is a 6 frame poly nuc too small to contain the flying bees, if I was to carry out a split, without finding the queen? As per the NBU instructions:

https://nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=1077

All the instructions I have read are for placing a full brood box on the original site, so wondering if there is a way to carry it out with a only a 6 frame nuc? I have a BS honeybees nuc, so I could buy a maismore 6 frame brood box for the top which would give more space? If needed I can do it as per instructions with a full hive, but just trying to minimise the amount of kit I have to lug about, hence wondering if there is a way to use the nuc box.

Thanks

Yes, that's absolutely fine

In fact it's probably even better!

EDIT oops, crossed posts, sorry

 

[TomH]

Thank you both, much appreciated.

 

[gregior]

I cut the feeder section out of my poly nucs you can then fit in 8 frames which should be enough room.

 

[nettle]

I think though if it's just queen cups you're seeing, rather than queen cells with eggs or larvae in them, then you don't need to panic yet. I waited until I found eggs in the cups before doing an artificial swarm on my brood-&-a-half hive last weekend (admittedly far earlier than I'd expected to have to do one!). I think you're ok to keep going with regular 7 day inspections until you find charged cells, but have all your kit ready for when you do.

 

[Boston Bees]

I think though if it's just queen cups you're seeing, rather than queen cells with eggs or larvae in them, then you don't need to panic yet. I waited until I found eggs in the cups before doing an artificial swarm on my brood-&-a-half hive last weekend (admittedly far earlier than I'd expected to have to do one!). I think you're ok to keep going with regular 7 day inspections until you find charged cells, but have all your kit ready for when you do.

Agreed

I'd add that if you just find eggs in cells, you don't necessarily need to an AS - bees often remove them - but don't wait 7 days until the next inspection. 4 would probably be best.

Unless you tear down every cup with an egg in of course ... but it's hard to be sure you got them all

 

[Finman]

I think though if it's just queen cups you're seeing, rather than queen cells with eggs or larvae in them, then you don't need to panic yet. I waited until I found eggs in the cups before doing an artificial swarm on my brood-&-a-half hive last weekend (admittedly far earlier than I'd expected to have to do one!). I think you're ok to keep going with regular 7 day inspections until you find charged cells, but have all your kit ready for when you do.

But forget the nuc in swarm control. Clipped queen wing would be good.

Do that AS when you see real queen cells. Queen cell cups mean nothing.

Idea is to get the queen continue to lay summer bees.
When make an AS, make it with foundations.

When you put the queen into the AS, it takes 3 days that queen starts laying.

 

[TomH]

Thank you for all advice. Checked them again today, and same story, just play cups no eggs, so will keep on with the regular 7 day inspections and trying to keep ahead of them. Managed to get round and mark all my queens today as well, which I was chuffed with, so hopefully will be swarm control a little easier when it comes to it.

I'd add that if you just find eggs in cells, you don't necessarily need to an AS - bees often remove them - but don't wait 7 days until the next inspection. 4 would probably be best.

Unless you tear down every cup with an egg in of course ... but it's hard to be sure you got them all

This also good to know, wish I had read that before inspecting this morning!... I had exactly that on another colony on brood and a half, plus one super, which had around 10 or so QCs with eggs. Maybe a bit eager then, but nuc'd the queen anyway to be on the safe side.

 

[Finman]

7 days cycle in inspectipn is good and practical.
I cannot see any reason, why it shoud be "probaply" 4 days.

When you took the queen away, you must do an AS to cut swarming fever, and give the queen to the AS, that queen continues laying

 

[Boston Bees]

I cannot see any reason, why it shoud be "probaply" 4 days.

7 days is usually perfect, as you say

My point was that if you see eggs in queen cups, and leave them there, waiting 7 days to the next inspection would be a bad idea. Hence 4/5 days in that circumstance

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes. Three days for me.

 

[Finman]

A hive use to swarm first time when the first queen cells are capped. Second swarm (cast) leaves after a week , when new new queens are ready to fly.

Days cannot be exact, because you do not know when the first eggs are in play cups. Egg stage is 3 days.

Time to egg laying to capped larva is 9 days.

When I was working, I lived in Helsinki. I travelled to my hive every weekend 100 mile distance. It was not possible to inpect hives faster than every 7th day.

To clip the queen wing gives more time to make AS. You can save the wings if you have afford to loose swarms. You often loose the queen but you save the bees and honey yield.