Swarm Control Confusion

[Mabee]

So one of my busiest hives had multiple queen cells yesterday both capped and uncapped, but hive was full so don’t believe they have swarmed. Also didn’t see queen but there were eggs.

Have a full on head cold and my brain just went blank, I suddenly couldn’t remember what I was supposed to do. Having looked twice I couldn’t see the queen and bees were getting grumpy so I took all but one queen cell down and then put queen cell in a nuc, frame of bees and brood and left in old hive place. I moved original hive along the pallet.

Now i’m thinking today with all a head full of the cold, so still fuzzy thinking, that this won’t work. Should I move the main hive further away and will that then hopefully do the job? For now!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just because the hive looked full of bees, didn't mean they haven't swarmed.
Did you leave a QC in the main hive?

 

[Mabee]

Just because the hive looked full of bees, didn't mean they haven't swarmed.
Did you leave a QC in the main hive?

No, I put it in the nuc, but there were eggs and larvae.

I would have put Q and empty frames in nuc in original spot but just didn’t see her.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You've left the nuc in place of the original hive so that is now going to have most of the flying bees, the other hive is now going to make emergency QC's so you need to go back in in a week and reduce those down to one.
Make sure both have plenty of food.

 

[Erichalfbee]

So one of my busiest hives had multiple queen cells yesterday both capped and uncapped, but hive was full so don’t believe they have swarmed.

If you last looked in a week ago thousands more bees have emerged since.
But they don’t always swarm with capped cells. I’ve found a resident queen and capped cells on more than one occasion.

 

[Mabee]

You've left the nuc in place of the original hive so that is now going to have most of the flying bees, the other hive is now going to make emergency QC's so you need to go back in in a week and reduce those down to one.
Make sure both have plenty of food.

If the queen is still in the old hive will they just get on with it. Obviously i’ll check in a week anyway.
I also don’t know if i’ve moved the original hive far enough away, should I move a couple of meters away?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If the queen is still in the old hive will they just get on with it

They'll probably still swarm eventually if she's still there - and also the nuc will get packed with flying bees

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

But they don’t always swarm with capped cells. I’ve found a resident queen and capped cells on more than one occasion.

Me too, twice this season.

 

[Boston Bees]

So one of my busiest hives had multiple queen cells yesterday both capped and uncapped, but hive was full so don’t believe they have swarmed. Also didn’t see queen but there were eggs.

Have a full on head cold and my brain just went blank, I suddenly couldn’t remember what I was supposed to do.

It's a bit of an overwhelming situation isn't it.

As an amateur, my method these days is never to try and find the queen in situ, with thousands of flying bees around my head and on the comb. There are lots of methods, but as soon as I see charged queen cells I immediately:

1) Move the whole hive to another part of the apiary (doesn't need to be on a stand at this point) with the lid removed
2) Put an empty nuc box on the original stand to give the flyers something to go and hang around in
3) Pause. breathe, relax
4) Start working through the frames, which is now much easier and calmer as all the flying bees have gone
5) You can then decide what to do.

Personally, I then just put a frame with open brood (but no QCs) into the nuc box on the original stand, a frame or two of food and pollen, and 3 or 4 empty frames (foundation or drawn), and leave the foragers and the nurse bees on the open brood frame to make a new queen. I then put the rest of the frames on a new stand, possibly divided into two colonies each with QCs, depending how big the hive was, then come back in a week and do whatever is necessary. If the queen is in the hive on the new stand (or one of them) then the QCs will probably have all been torn down as the hive will realise it has no forager force to lead a swarm away.

 

[Mabee]

Thank you, yes I probably should have taken time to go away and think about it.

I had to pop up to give another hive some space today and lifted the lid off the nuc and it was packed full, so assume all the foragers did go into there with the queen cell. I did put a frame of emerging bud and food into the nuc so i’ll wait and see what they look like in a week and if the hive next door has settled and if not i’ll try to be more prepared and hopefully my head a bit clearer.

 

[Mabee]

They'll probably still swarm eventually if she's still there - and also the nuc will get packed with flying bees

will that be an issue (the flying bees in the nuc)?

 

[Finman]

So one of my busiest hives had multiple queen cells yesterday both capped and uncapped, but hive was full so don’t believe they have swarmed. Also didn’t see queen but there were eggs.

When bees have capped first queen cells, the colony may swarm when ever.

The main idea is that second swarm starts after a week, when first queen cell emerges

When you take queen cells off, and they have larvae, bees make new emergency cells. They are not satisfied to one queen cell. Often thei have "a hidden queencell", what is difficuot to see.

Next you get second swarm, the cast.
Better to do something quickly.

 

[JohnRB]

Me too, twice this season.

After finding a queen and capped cell twice this season I read up about clipping queens in Ted Hooper. On page 111 (5th Edition) he notes that clipped queens won't swarm until the virgin is ready to emerge whereas unclipped ones will go when the cell is sealed. This explains what I have seen, but frustratingly he doesn't give a reference or reason why he believes it happens.

 

[Wilco]

After finding a queen and capped cell twice this season I read up about clipping queens in Ted Hooper. On page 111 (5th Edition) he notes that clipped queens won't swarm until the virgin is ready to emerge whereas unclipped ones will go when the cell is sealed. This explains what I have seen, but frustratingly he doesn't give a reference or reason why he believes it happens.

Might be that they try, realise it won't work then go back and wait for a VQ to do it with. Alternatively they figure out that the queen can't fly so know they need a VQ.

 

[Finman]

These are emergency cells and the colony has been split into two.
Are they likely to swarm again?

I have not seen the history. 2000 km distsnce.

Description: eggs and several queen cells. Some open and some capped. Not emergency cells to me.
If the colony has swarming fever, emergency cells do not whipe away swarming fever.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have not seen the history. 2000 km distsnce.

Description: eggs and several queen cells. Some open and some capped. Not emergency cells to me.

Oh ignore me. I’m in the wrong thread

 

[madasafish]

Me too, twice this season.

Ditto.

And when they did swarm: after 30 minutes the cluster was:
on the top of the hive from which they had swarmed!!!
Except the white marked queen flew from the nuc box I had lovingly (?) chosen for her and went back to the same place. Easily visible due to marking so returned to nuc.
All this at a balmy 16C, Mating flights for other nucs this pm..

Beekeeping is like the British weather -unpredictable.

Try 2 grafting : struggling to find young larvae as most Qs on Brood Breaks due to weather/ Try 1 was predictable however. 0 out of 10

Books never tell you how utterly at the mercy of the weather we are!

 

[Finman]

Books never tell you how utterly at the mercy of the weather we are!

It is better look via window and stay inside that you are not under the mercy.