"Survivor bees" found in Blenheim Forest

[judy12]

I'm wondering why "raw' is such a boo word when used to describe honey. To me it means not pasteurised, (please correct me if I'm wrong) which, I believe is what happens to most store-bought 'pure' honeys.

 

[Into the lions den]

I don't know of ANY pasteurised honey. Its a largely false accusation usually made by beekeepers, and those who listen to them, to create an artificial distinction. Raw is deliberately used to imply other peoples honey is inferior. I don't know of any cooked honey that can legally be sold as honey, so it is negative marketing against others dressed up as positive marketing of your own. This is a revolving subject.....comes around with amazing frequency. Raw is a meaningless term as technically it is ALL raw.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I'm wondering why "raw' is such a boo word when used to describe honey. To me it means not pasteurised, (please correct me if I'm wrong) which, I believe is what happens to most store-bought 'pure' honeys.

I think the TS argument is that the word is not allowed under the Honey Regulations and hence they have to act if these laws are breached and that ALL honey should be "raw" so the word should not be used to suggest that your honey is better than someone else's.**
I would argue that maybe a better solution would be to suggest that if honey has been heated above an agreed temperature it should say on the label.

Edit. ** would a car manufacturer describe his product as drivable?

 

[judy12]

I don't know of ANY pasteurised honey. Its a largely false accusation usually made by beekeepers, and those who listen to them, to create an artificial distinction. Raw is deliberately used to imply other peoples honey is inferior. I don't know of any cooked honey that can legally be sold as honey, so it is negative marketing against others dressed up as positive marketing of your own. This is a revolving subject.....comes around with amazing frequency. Raw is a meaningless term as technically it is ALL raw.

I've just looked online. There is at least one company advertising there which says it pasteurises its honey to remove yeasts that might cause the honey to ferment.
I know this is a contentious subject but it makes me so angry that small beekeepers are chastised while almost every supermarket in the country sells "pure " honey for around £1.70 lb.

 

[Murox]

Money talks, and when it has something important to say it does not have to shout, it just invents new advertising.

 

[fian]

I've just looked online. There is at least one company advertising there which says it pasteurises its honey to remove yeasts that might cause the honey to ferment.
I know this is a contentious subject but it makes me so angry that small beekeepers are chastised while almost every supermarket in the country sells "pure " honey for around £1.70 lb.

Is that price of 1.7 pounds for a 340g jar?
That means about 5 euros per kilo, which is the price you usually find in supermarkets in Spain for honey of extra-European origin.
Perhaps in the UK you are in a more critical situation since the price of honey for a consumer is one of the highest in Europe, so the use of labels is more common to differentiate yourself in an open and competitive market.

 

[Murox]

Is that price of 1.7 pounds for a 340g jar?
That means about 5 euros per kilo, which is the price you usually find in supermarkets in Spain for honey of extra-European origin.
Perhaps in the UK you are in a more critical situation since the price of honey for a consumer is one of the highest in Europe, so the use of labels is more common to differentiate yourself in an open and competitive market.

Most hobbyists just want honesty and equality over labeling. They are not trying to compete with mass marketing sales.

 

[JamezF]

I've just looked online. There is at least one company advertising there which says it pasteurises its honey to remove yeasts that might cause the honey to ferment.

That seems quite odd to me. How likely would the honey be to ferment in the first place?

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

That seems quite odd to me. How likely would the honey be to ferment in the first place?

James

Heating and cooling? Help stop it crystallising and gives it a longer shelf life.

 

[Newbeeneil]

That seems quite odd to me. How likely would the honey be to ferment in the first place?

James

Very unlikely if the M/C is below 18%

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've just looked online. There is at least one company advertising there which says it pasteurises its honey to remove yeasts that might cause the honey to ferment.

Link please?
If you don’t mind.

 

[JamezF]

Link please?
If you don’t mind.

This is the one I found: Why pasteurize honey?

James

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I think the TS argument is that the word is not allowed under the Honey Regulations and hence they have to act if these laws are breached and that ALL honey should be "raw" so the word should not be used to suggest that your honey is better than someone else's.**
Edit. ** would a car manufacturer describe his product as drivable?

Quiz question: which of these words can legally be used as a honey description on the label: raw, natural, creamed?
Answer: creamed. The other two terms do not describe 'specific quality criteria'. (They can - or should - be applicable to all honeys.) See Honey Regs 17.5: 'The product name of a relevant honey may be supplemented by information relating to its specific quality criteria.’

And, just in case anyone wants to object on the grounds that creamed honey implies a diary product, 'Creamed honey' is an alternative term for soft-set honey – though some would say that the process to make each is different. It describes ‘specific quality criteria’, attributes that makes this honey different from other honeys. It’s apt because to cream food is ‘to make food into a smooth, thick liquid’. As far as I can tell, it’s not true that there has ever been any ban on describing honey as 'creamed'.

 

[user 6228]

For it to be honey and not to be label "bakers honey" from The Honey (England) Regulations 2015 (my emphasis)

8. It must not—

(a)have any foreign tastes or odours;

(b)have begun to ferment;

(c)have an artificially changed acidity;

(d)have been heated in such a way that the natural enzymes have been either destroyed or significantly inactivated.

 

[North End Bees]

'Creamed honey' is an alternative term for soft-set honey – though some would say that the process to make each is different. It describes ‘specific quality criteria’, attributes that makes this honey different from other honeys.

But Creamed Honey is not an official description listed in the Honey Regs so sellers could fall foul of local TS interpretation.

 

[JamezF]

But Creamed Honey is not an official description listed in the Honey Regs so sellers could fall foul of local TS interpretation.

Archie's point, I believe, is that the regs allow for an additional part of the product name that refers to a specific quality criteria (that is, over and above those names described directly). It's never been clear to me what they really mean by "specific quality criteria" though. The regs seem to leave that open to interpretation.

Personally I've no idea if "creamed" might be considered acceptable or not, I have to admit. The idea that it isn't because it might be confused with dairy products is one that's been around since before I did my introductory course almost twenty years ago, certainly. There might perhaps be other food regulations that disallow a product description using the word "cream" or ones derived from it unless the product does indeed contain cream (or perhaps butter?) as an ingredient.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well with the sudden craze for Kimchi and all things fermented to normalise our microbiome I see an opening here

 

[North End Bees]

Well with the sudden craze for Kimchi and all things fermented to normalise our microbiome I see an opening here

After all the antibiotics some people want to take for every little cold they could probably do with some microbiome boosters.

This Honey Fermented Ginger and Lemon recipe could be quite good for winter colds.

 

[North End Bees]

It would be interesting to see if it would work with supermarket honey!

 

[Into the lions den]

This is the one I found: Why pasteurize honey?

James

Yes, but they are not in Europe and not subject to UK or EU honey regs (which are pretty identical).

Also...heating on its own tells you nothing...its the function of heat and time that causes...or avoids...the denaturing of honey as we know it. Destruction of enzymes....elevation of hmf...darkening of product.

That type of pasteurising is also not the process as we know it here....its more precisely flash heating...for a very short time..to prevent crystallisation. Smaller scale packers dont do it that way, they 'stabilise' their clear honey in the jar by taking it up to melt heat overnight to eliminate any crystal nucleii in the pack, to give long shelf life. Have seen THAT also labelled as raw honey when in fact...if anything..its worse for the product than well controlled flash heating.