Supersedure to delay swarming?

[BaconWizard]

Ok google is throwing up way too many general articles for me to find this:

Can one artificially supersede a current Queen as a means to delay swarming?

(I am talking about raising queen cups in a nuc and adding a 14 or 15 day old queen cell to a big colony without bothering to find the old queen, although one could do-so and remove her too if that's preferable in which case it's simple re-queening but same question applies: can it delay the swarming impulse by a useful amount?)

I am guessing if so, that it would need to be before swarm-cells are made. But anyway yeah, does it work? Is it a good idea if so?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you put a queen cell into a perfectly happy queen right colony the bees will destroy it.
You can "supersede" a current queen by Demareeing the colony

 

[BaconWizard]

If you put a queen cell into a perfectly happy queen right colony the bees will destroy it.
You can "supersede" a current queen by Demareeing the colony

Youtube can be misleading but I doubt this is fake:

 

[BaconWizard]

If you put a queen cell into a perfectly happy queen right colony the bees will destroy it.
You can "supersede" a current queen by Demareeing the colony

Even if so, you can supersede with a normal re-queening. The question is whether it affects the swarming instinct and if so, is it enough to be worthwhile doing?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Youtube can be misleading but I doubt this is fake

why?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Even if so, you can supersede with a normal re-queening. The question is whether it affects the swarming instinct and if so, is it enough to be worthwhile doing?

you still have a hive packed with bees, just with a new queen - or are you one of these who believes that first year queens don't swarm?
A pretty pointless exercise IMHO - just get on and practice proper swarm control/avoidance.

 

[BaconWizard]

you still have a hive packed with bees, just with a new queen - or are you one of these who believes that first year queens don't swarm?
A pretty pointless exercise IMHO - just get on and practice proper swarm control/avoidance.

I intend to learn about ALL possible means including potential new ones. I don't ask about the stuff that is easy to find. Because it's easy to find.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

instead, just look at cr@p on yootoob? if it's hard to find there's usually a good reason - usually just some nutjob who's been given a video camera for Christmas searching for their fifteen minutes of fame.

 

[BaconWizard]

instead, just look at cr@p on yootoob? if it's hard to find there's usually a good reason - usually just some nutjob who's been given a video camera for Christmas searching for their fifteen minutes of fame.

I don't see commenting on a forum post as being any less prone to bullshit, frankly.
Nevertheless, I intend to continue to ask questions that are not readily answered by other means; my mind works that way and it won't be changing.

 

[Sutty]

I have read a scientific paper about induced supersedure doing exactly that - although the queen cell needs to be protected. Can't remember much about success rate though. Old queen needs to be marked to know if successful of course.

 

[Sutty]

Found it - from 1959! You only get part of the paper with this link & I didn't pay for full access.
https://www.proquest.com/openview/2...46311/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y
There is also a Dave Cushman article on this
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/inducedsupersedure.html
Hope this is helpful

 

[BaconWizard]

Found it - from 1959! You only get part of the paper with this link & I didn't pay for full access.
https://www.proquest.com/openview/2...46311/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y
There is also a Dave Cushman article on this
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/inducedsupersedure.html
Hope this is helpful

THANKS! Yeah I am also not subscribed or part of an academic institution anymore, but I might know someone who is… thanks for this, just what I needed.

 

[Anduril]

Ok google is throwing up way too many general articles for me to find this:

Can one artificially supersede a current Queen as a means to delay swarming?

(I am talking about raising queen cups in a nuc and adding a 14 or 15 day old queen cell to a big colony without bothering to find the old queen, although one could do-so and remove her too if that's preferable in which case it's simple re-queening but same question applies: can it delay the swarming impulse by a useful amount?)

I am guessing if so, that it would need to be before swarm-cells are made. But anyway yeah, does it work? Is it a good idea if so?

The idea of the Bee Whisperer is to requeen hives that are too defensive. It was also discussed on this forum
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/tudorcd-queen-introduction-new-zealand.34269/

 

[BaconWizard]

Think I’ll drop the $30 on this one:
https://eurekamag.com/research/000/475/000475270.php

 

[BaconWizard]

The idea of the Bee Whisperer is to requeen hives that are too defensive. It was also discussed on this forum
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/tudorcd-queen-introduction-new-zealand.34269/

Yep.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Can one artificially supersede a current Queen as a means to delay swarming?

Cut off a part of one leg and she'll be superseded.

 

[Antipodes]

Cut off a part of one leg and she'll be superseded.

Does it matter which leg?
I accidentally cut of a good portion of one of the front legs of queen once and expected her to be superseded, but they kept her all through one season and well into the next ....before the colony perished.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Does it matter which leg?

Roger Patterson describes the method on Dave Cushman's A-Z.

I did it accidentally when clipping, but hadn't yet learned that she'll put up a middle leg. They superseded within 3 months.

Reduction in queen pheromone footprint leads to dissatisfaction, which makes sense.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Roger Patterson describes the method on Dave Cushman's A-Z.

yyyyerrs
One reason Cushman's is no longer the 'go to' site it used to be.

Reduction in queen pheromone footprint leads to dissatisfaction, which makes sense

And yet I've seen/had reports of colonies with queens sans full complement of legs keep her for years without superseding

 

[Hachi]

I intend to learn about ALL possible means including potential new ones. I don't ask about the stuff that is easy to find. Because it's easy to find.

And therein lies the answer to the hard to find stuff