Superseding strains vs swarmy strains.

[Murox]

This sort of paywall is unlikely to increase usage, it will most likely only decrease potential users. The world is always changing, there is a constant need for new data, research and studies but to monetise older information behind the now fashionable paywall, which I doubt gives the author(s) any benefit, does seem somewhat “ off ”.

 

[B+.]

Somehow I have ended up with three hardback copies of the Bees Of The British Isles.
Also have BIBBA booklets: pedigree bee breeding in western europe, guidelines for bee breeding, queen raising the jenkins way, better beginnings for beekeepers, make your own glass quilt, beekeeping in britain the way ahead, hive record cards, bee breeding and queen rearing as well as pages from the BIBBA magazine that make up Queen rearing as a group activity and raising, mating and use of queens by friedrich-karl tiesler and eva englert translated by bernhard mobus.

BIBBA have produced a few good books. A few of the translations from German publications are definitely worth reading. The Tiesler & Englert book you mentioned is a classic. I have the 2015 German edition "Aufzucht und Verwendung von Königinnen" which accompanies the IWF queen rearing videos - everything you could ever want to know about queen rearing is in there! Obviously, Eva Englert is dead now but FK Tiesler is still the German breeding co-ordinator. He is still quite active in Beebreed.

 

[Nige.Coll]

BIBBA have produced a few good books. A few of the translations from German publications are definitely worth reading. The Tiesler & Englert book you mentioned is a classic. I have the 2015 German edition "Aufzucht und Verwendung von Königinnen" which accompanies the IWF queen rearing videos - everything you could ever want to know about queen rearing is in there! Obviously, Eva Englert is dead now but FK Tiesler is still the German breeding co-ordinator. He is still quite active in Beebreed.

There is an IWF booklet in with the pamphlet.
I got a lot of them from either Dave Cushman's books or some books I bought from the widow of an old BIBBA member that went to Europe queen rearing and doing talks. Owen was his first name can't remember his last name, retired copper.

 

[B+.]

There is an IWF booklet in with the pamphlet.
I got a lot of them from either Dave Cushman's books or some books I bought from the widow of an old BIBBA member that went to Europe queen rearing and doing talks. Owen was his first name can't remember his last name, retired copper.

Is the pamphlet on queen rearing? Buschhausen publish Aufzucht und Verwendung von Königinnen and Selektion bei der honigbiene. They do an annual Appendix which has useful stuff in (stockbook, etc) - all in German, of course. I once posted a copy of the pamphlet that came with the IWF Instrumental Insemination video on here. Like most of my books, the good ones are "well read" and get a bit tatty after a while. One of these is "Breeding techniques and selection for breeding of the honeybee" by Ruttner (translated by Ashleigh & Eric Milner) - I have read this so many times that it's falling apart!
I used to know quite a few of the BIBBA people. Not so anymore - so I can't help you identify the beekeeper you mentioned.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Is the pamphlet on queen rearing? Buschhausen publish Aufzucht und Verwendung von Königinnen and Selektion bei der honigbiene. They do an annual Appendix which has useful stuff in (stockbook, etc) - all in German, of course. I once posted a copy of the pamphlet that came with the IWF Instrumental Insemination video on here. Like most of my books, the good ones are "well read" and get a bit tatty after a while. One of these is "Breeding techniques and selection for breeding of the honeybee" by Ruttner (translated by Ashleigh & Eric Milner) - I have read this so many times that it's falling apart!
I used to know quite a few of the BIBBA people. Not so anymore - so I can't help you identify the beekeeper you mentioned.

It's a 20 page little book.
C 1801
The rearing of queen bees.
In English.
Seems to say it goes with a film.

Owen was a member in the 90's I believe or before that even. Most of the stuff he had was from 90's and early 2000's.
His widow still has a lot of books still. Some amazing books but a bit expensive as they are rare.

 

[B+.]

It's a 20 page little book.
C 1801
The rearing of queen bees.
In English.
Seems to say it goes with a film.

I'd like a copy if you wouldn't mind scanning it for me. The II booklet was about the same size. It's very well written and summarises the video well.
I have all the IWF videos on my YouTube channel - anyone can watch them for free. This is the playlist. Hopefully, that link works

 

[North End Bees]

The world is always changing, there is a constant need for new data, research and studies but to monetise older information behind the now fashionable paywall, which I doubt gives the author(s) any benefit, does seem somewhat “ off ”.

Lots of older books are widely available online as free PDFs. E.g the Storch book 'At the Hive Entrance' (which you could still choose to pay for as a paperback).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What a sad trend this is...how many people even read proper books now? Everything is being scanned and put behind paywalls. I'd much rather hold a proper book in my hands. I suppose I'm showing my age there.

No - 'proper' books I have to hold and to have on my bookshelf, with an e-reader you can't flick back and fore when something you read a chapter or two ago suddenly has a relevance to the sentence in front of you. An e-reader came in handy for me when I was at sea as I always ended up with an extra bag to lug around with all the books I needed to read as well as the ones I'd decided I might have to read depending on my mood.
I reserve my e-reader for the pot boilers and lightweight novels I use to rest the brain, something, if I'd bought the paperback I would feel no compulsion to hang onto in case I wanted to re read it, the sort of thing that ends up in another load of stuff for the charity shop.

 

[Boston Bees]

Lots of older books are widely available online as free PDFs. E.g the Storch book 'At the Hive Entrance' (which you could still choose to pay for as a paperback).

Ditto for Warre's "Beekeeping for All", for those of that inclination

 

[Murox]

Lots of older books are widely available online as free PDFs. E.g the Storch book 'At the Hive Entrance' (which you could still choose to pay for as a paperback).

Yes there are. My point is that the blatant use of older written materials by a large national charity as a means of raising money/building membership? is objectionable. Just click through the links and see how it is written

 

[Apple]

Seem to remember Jon Getty challenging a lot of Beo Cooper's claims!

For a breeder of French originating Amm... are you supprised?

I don't have a signed copy of B Cooper's book in my collection, because of course Beo died before his notes were collated into one of the pivitol books on beekeeping written in English....
and the BIBBA ( When it was the British Isles Bee Breeding Association) booklet.. Using the cell punch system... plus a few others....

Chons da

 

[B+.]

No - 'proper' books I have to hold and to have on my bookshelf, with an e-reader you can't flick back and fore when something you read a chapter or two ago suddenly has a relevance to the sentence in front of you. An e-reader came in handy for me when I was at sea as I always ended up with an extra bag to lug around with all the books I needed to read as well as the ones I'd decided I might have to read depending on my mood.
I reserve my e-reader for the pot boilers and lightweight novels I use to rest the brain, something, if I'd bought the paperback I would feel no compulsion to hang onto in case I wanted to re read it, the sort of thing that ends up in another load of stuff for the charity shop.

You make my point precisely Emyr. I often find that I have to go back and re-read a section in the light of something I read later (perhaps it's a sign of age? or perhaps its the type of books I read?) So often, I flick past stuff I've read in almost every other book of the type (queen rearing) to get to the chapter, or two, I may have bought the book for in the first place. With a book, I can skip straight to the bit I want to read (and double-back if I need to). It's a personal thing. Everyone has their own preference.

 

[mbc]

For a breeder of French originating Amm... are you supprised?

I don't have a signed copy of B Cooper's book in my collection, because of course Beo died before his notes were collated into one of the pivitol books on beekeeping written in English....
and the BIBBA ( When it was the British Isles Bee Breeding Association) booklet.. Using the cell punch system... plus a few others....

Chons da

Good grief, between the French and the Dutch there won't be a Celtic morsel left in these Irish bees. Strange for a country only 40yrs previously to IOW to have suffered genocide at the hands of their homicidal imperial masters to suddenly be in a position to flood the bee population with expensive imports, bees must have been first and foremost on the Irish folks minds.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Somehow I have ended up with three hardback copies of the Bees Of The British Isles.
Also have BIBBA booklets: pedigree bee breeding in western europe, guidelines for bee breeding, queen raising the jenkins way, better beginnings for beekeepers, make your own glass quilt, beekeeping in britain the way ahead, hive record cards, bee breeding and queen rearing as well as pages from the BIBBA magazine that make up Queen rearing as a group activity and raising, mating and use of queens by friedrich-karl tiesler and eva englert translated by bernhard mobus.

And breath

You make my point precisely Emyr. I often find that I have to go back and re-read a section in the light of something I read later (perhaps it's a sign of age? or perhaps its the type of books I read?) So often, I flick past stuff I've read in almost every other book of the type (queen rearing) to get to the chapter, or two, I may have bought the book for in the first place. With a book, I can skip straight to the bit I want to read (and double-back if I need to). It's a personal thing. Everyone has their own preference.

No those traits happen when you are young to,
I only read books really, I have quite alot of pdf material even from this forum that I'm yet to read.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Good grief, between the French and the Dutch there won't be a Celtic morsel left in these Irish bees. Strange for a country only 40yrs previously to IOW to have suffered genocide at the hands of their homicidal imperial masters to suddenly be in a position to flood the bee population with expensive imports, bees must have been first and foremost on the Irish folks minds.

What IOW? Blunt I get you but still.
They are true Irish amms IOW did nothing.

 

[Apple]

Good grief, between the French and the Dutch there won't be a Celtic morsel left in these Irish bees. Strange for a country only 40yrs previously to IOW to have suffered genocide at the hands of their homicidal imperial masters to suddenly be in a position to flood the bee population with expensive imports, bees must have been first and foremost on the Irish folks minds.

It is a Full Moon tonight Shirly to be sure.?

How badly the English treated the poor Irish... and the Welsh... The Scots... The Cornish..... the list is endless... even Laurence of Arabia refused a Knighthood over the way the French and the English did the dirty on the Arabs!

 

[Apple]

What IOW? Blunt I get you but still.
They are true Irish amms IOW did nothing.

Isle of Wight disease ( The Honey bee one***) that probably was a virus imported with bees from Europe.

*** not to be confuse with the other IOW disease that was imported with foreign chickens

 

[Nige.Coll]

The bees from Jensen et al. (2005) were sampled from GBBG and corroborated the records maintained by the group in that they derived from the population existing in Ireland in the 1920s as well as those imported from the Netherlands after the Isle of Wight disease (Mac Giolla Coda, personal communication, 2016). So, the large numbers of bees similar to the Dutch type detected here reflect the significant imports by beekeepers from the Netherlands after the loss of managed colonies during Isle of Wight disease. Here mitochondrial data coincides with evidence described in the grey literature and by word of mouth.

In conclusion, based on both the mitochondrial and microsatellite results, Ireland is home to a significant pure population of A. m. mellifera. This population is comprised of bees that show clear linkages with European bees, particularly from France the Netherlands and the UK, and another group of bees that show distinct “Irish” microsatellite alleles and mitochondrial haplotypes.

IOW disease did quite a bit of damage in Ireland.
So much so the Irish government imported a large amount of bees from the Netherlands. It is documented.

Importation of non-native bees after this population crash is reported to also have had a large impact with the first organized importation of bees recorded in the Republic of Ireland in 1923, when skeps of Dutch bees (A. m. mellifera) were brought in large numbers especially to Co. Wexford. In 1927 under a Department of Agriculture and technical instruction restocking scheme, 15 County Committees of Agriculture imported Dutch skeps.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

so, the 'wrong' type of AMM
Where have we heard that before?

 

[Nige.Coll]

Just going off the research paid for by the Irish into their bees.
They evolve in isolation and create ecotypes, each ecotype is slightly different. Just how it is, evolution.
Facts are Irish AMM are different from English AMM, French AMM and the Dutch AMM.
They are all AMM but evolved in different areas. Given longer than 10,000 years or so they could of evolved into completely different species with common ancestry like other areas in Europe did.
You don't have to like the results but the research is valid.

Edit: One thing to add, after talking to a beekeeper in his 80's a few years ago and listening to his beekeeping story, he was a third generation beekeeper, the native bees in Warwickshire weren't black they were brown according to him, he had never bought in queens or bees and had maintained the same lines his father/grandfather had kept and they bred from the survivors of the IOW disease. Last time I saw his bees they were still relatively brown in colour.