Supers above or below the brood box?

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garybees 

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Hello friends!

I want to leave the supers and frames of honey on my hives as I ve not taken any honey from them (well one frames worth). Where do I leave the super and its honey? Do I leave it above the brood box and take the queen excluder off or do I move it underneath the brood box.

At what temp do bees cluster? Does the cluster move to the warmest place in the hive or follow the food source around?

many thanks


Gary
 

VEG 

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You will get answers supporting both above and below, so go with what you feel will work for you. Where ever you decide to leave it take the queen excluder out.
 

garybees 

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Hee Hee..

Its difficult making an informed decision as I dont fully understand what the bees are doing during their clustering! Do they follow heat or food? So much lateral / horizontal / sideways thinking with this hobby!

:]
 

Queens59 

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They create their own heat, that is why they cluster, and eat food from the frames around them to create heat. They are just waiting for warmer weather, so that they can forage again...or doing sodoku - not sure...
 

oliver90owner 

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Just ask this question to yourself.

Where would it be in a natural bee colony?

The answer is good enough for me to decide where they would want it.

Regards, RAB
 

Silly Bee 

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I did read somewhere, that if you have the super on top, make sure there is bee space so they can go up and over, rather than have to go down, and back up again.
 

Black Comb 

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I understand that the idea of the super under means that in the spring when they usually move up the queen will be laying in the brood box and not in the super.

This worked for me last year.

Take Q/E off so the queen does not get isolated.
 

MuswellMetro 

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You will get answers supporting both above and below, so go with what you feel will work for you. Where ever you decide to leave it take the queen excluder out.
ok lets start the discussion again supers below or above the brood box, i have never done it, nor used brood and a half as i started with 14x12 straight away

As i see it the:

above the brood: the queen and cluster sometime move up ok , but can get trapped and not cross on to the super frames as ithe cluster does not wants to leave brood area on the brood frames ( different in brood and half as the brood area cover both the boxes)

Below the brood: thE workers move some of the surplus stores up to the brood and use it as normal store in the brood over winter but really dont have access to the lower stores until they break cluster in spring


Ok over to others i have no further comments and am leaving:auto: until other put in their two pennyworth
 

rich 

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I always put them underneath without the excluder. My reasoning is that as I run OMF, this gives a "skirt" to protect any brood and cluster, by lifting them further away from the open floor.

Also what I did find the only time I left them on top was that the bees hadn't moved up to the top of the super when I went to do the OX in Jan, I then had the quandary, do I break up the cluster, or just drop it down between the frames (which is the route I took) which did seem a little hit and miss.

Lastly, if a super is under the BB, you will have a larger proportion of the new brood in the spring actually in the brood box, so when you spilt to move the super back above the BB, there will be less space taken up by brood giving the colony more space to put any flow into without you having to add another super straight away, which may not always be a good thing if its very early in the season when a condensed hive would be more beneficial with a smaller area to heat.

Just my reasoning, but I’m sure there will be others as with logic as good if not better to leave it on top.

Rich
 

oliver90owner 

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How many try to limit the queen to laying just in a standard National brood box in spring?

Most of mine use up a 14 x 12 and often need extra space! Little wonder people have early swarming issues!

Regards, RAB
 

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Bees start wintering in the site where they had last brood. They collect food in open broodcells do not cap then.

Capped food super is best to put over the brood area.
I am doing it now because some of my hives are late in feeding an i give ready capped honey instead of syrup. They still have some brood and i give syrup too.

So. Uppstairs is the place.
 

Finman 

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Rich use capped super frames as wind barrier. It would be clever to use solid bottom.
Or restrict the open area of mesh floor.
.
 

MuswellMetro 

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How many try to limit the queen to laying just in a standard National brood box in spring?

Most of mine use up a 14 x 12 and often need extra space! Little wonder people have early swarming issues!

Regards, RAB
I wish the big beekeeping suppliers would promote and sell 14x12 as the standard hive for modern bees rather than keep selling the smaller BS standard hives

$ or is it just to then sell 14x12 to them when the find their hive is too small
 

oliver90owner 

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MM,

Yep, new frames and a really 'fangled' eke at extortionately high cost (IMO).

When I started ten years ago, the 14 x12 was hardly ever mentioned. Brood and a half, yes, particularly in a WBC but a standard National brood was 'OK' for most - or so my LBKA told me.

It certainly has its down-sides but is far better for me overall. One down-side is the amount of residual honey in the brood box, but that does not worry me unduly. Another is the weight, and that is increasingly bothersome.

Regards, RAB
 

Hivemaker. 

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I and my bee's seem to get on just fine using standard national brood box's...don't use any 14x12s at all,but make quite a few,they seem to be popular with some.

And i would place the full super of stores above,if i ever felt the need to do so.
 
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Finman 

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Modern beehives are very flexible in nursing procedures.
Only a beekeeper makes to himself rules which he is not able to follow.

I use 3 langstroth brood box and i may use medium box too as brood.
I use brood boxes as suprs too.
I follow the way what is easy.

I follow bees' instinct in my nursing but i am not a slave of bees.


If you make procedures against bees' instincts bees use a huge energy to correct the fault. it is expencive to beekeeper too. They eate my honey.
 
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Finman 

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How many try to limit the queen to laying just in a standard National brood box in spring?

Most of mine use up a 14 x 12 and often need extra space! Little wonder people have early swarming issues!

Regards, RAB

you need not limit in spring laying it is limited without your assistance.

What is the reasons to limit spring laying?
 

garybees 

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Hello friends,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.. I am going to leave the supers and their stores above the BB. I am still using a contact feeder with syrup so hopefully they will have plenty to eat over the Winter..
 

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