Supering and excess space

[BernardBlack]

I need to Super very soon.

Just wondered about the big empty super, and all that space. It’ll be ages before it’s drawn out, and I don’t want to leave huge spaces for the bees to have to heat coming into autumn and the colder days.

Any ideas how best to just give them enough room in the new super?

 

[ShinySideUp]

Are you sure you need to put a new super on? The queen is laying her winter bees now and overall the population of the hive will start to fall. If you do put a super on then come, say, October/November time you should put the super underneath (a nadir) that way there won't be an empty space above the bees and any honey the bees have stored they will move up into the brood box. Then, next April when the weather is warming you can take the nadir out and put it back on top ready for the new seasons gatherings.

 

[BernardBlack]

After I posted, I realised about the queen laying slowing down coming into autumn.

Plus, I have a new queen coming next week, so she obviously won’t be laying straight away, so there will be a lull in young bees.

What would be the difference in having excess space in a super UNDER the Brood box, as opposed to OVER it?

How best to solve the excess space problem in a new super?

 

[drex]

" I need to super very soon" . Why.?What is the brood box like? how many frames of brood and stores. Is it chock full of bees? Do you have any supers on already. As said , it is coming to when queen and the flow slows .
If a shallow box is under the brood it is called a nadir, if over the brood box it is a super. Heat rises, so if you put a super on , the heat from the brood box rises into empty space, where it is wasted. It does however help the bees draw out wax, unlike if it is placed underneath

 

[beeno]

If the hive is overflowing with bees you can put a super on temporarily as the bees need room just to sit. You may need an empty super for treating (read manufacturers instructions) and perhaps as an eke for feeding depending on what feeders you use. The idea with nadiring is to get the nectar or honey into the brood box and they move it up pdq if you do it early and then you can take if off or leave it on until early spring. If you leave it on it does not matter so much for excess space as heat rises and the bees are in the brood box above, but they may store pollen in it which you don't want. I never have a super of stores on my hives in winter as I consider a brood box stuffed with capped stores is sufficient to take them through the winter in my locale. Winter bees emerge in late September/October, so it is a bit early to think of them, but it is important to have a good complement of healthy bees to raise them.

 

[BernardBlack]

" I need to super very soon" . Why.?What is the brood box like? how many frames of brood and stores. Is it chock full of bees? Do you have any supers on already. As said , it is coming to when queen and the flow slows .
If a shallow box is under the brood it is called a nadir, if over the brood box it is a super. Heat rises, so if you put a super on , the heat from the brood box rises into empty space, where it is wasted. It does however help the bees draw out wax, unlike if it is placed underneath

Just a single Brood box.

2 honey frames at back. 1 at front. The rest is all practically full of brood and bees.

 

[BernardBlack]

Thanks for explaining the nadir.

A couple years ago, I actually did an artificial swarm, leaving an undrawn Brood box below (except for 2/3 drawn frames), and the super above.

Come spring, the Brood box was obviously abandoned due to bees clustering in the super above, and comb/stores in BB below had gone mouldy.

What’s to stop that happening if I put an undrawn super (sorry, nadir) below? Won’t that happen again?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If it's undrawn, they'll ignore it and the chances of clean wax going mouldy is pretty slim

 

[drex]

My hives all have open mesh floors and mould is rare. My nucs are all homemade with solid floors and sometimes I get mould on outer frames. If I remove them and put them in a strong colony the bees soon clean and use them.