Sugarbabes

[sandysman]

Has anyone used bags of sugar in place of fondant for over winter feed?
Andy

 

[Skyhook]

It's sometimes done as an emergency measure- carry a bag of sugar, if you find a starving hive poke a hole in the bag, pour some water in and slap it over the feed hole as being better than nothing- but I believe it's much harder work for the bees as they have a lot of large crystals they have to dissolve.

There was a thread about some guy in America who was making sugar cakes- basically damp some sugar and put it in a baking tray to go hard, but I don't recall any very good reasons being given other than it was easier for him than making fondant or syrup.


.

 

[For want of a better word]

Old beek I once knew used to pour a cup and a half of water into a 1lb bag of sugar ( white granulated) and stick it over a hole in the crownboard... that was the winter feed!
In a WBC with dontknowwhatkindofbees.... on Granddad's allotment
But then he insisted on only thieving enough stores for himself... probably leaving a super full for the bees.
I don't think he even cut a hole in the bag!

 

[enrico]

When I first started we used to boil sugar and water until it went 'hard ball', poured it into pots, it turned into a solid block, we would put it over a feed hole in autumn and that is all they used to have, no autumn feeds, no fondant, so sugar would work, maybe just not so good! Any port in a storm to keep them alive!
E

 

[Tom Bick]

I have in the past successfully simply poured sugar over the crown board of a hive requiring emergency feeding with no water, when I have wet the sugar it more often simply sets solid. I work on the assumption that water is not a problem for the bees. The one problem with this dry sugar approach is the bees drag some of the sugar to the feed hole and then falls through the hive onto the floor or inspection tray.

 

[pargyle]

When it's so easy to make fondant it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to feed them plain sugar. Make some fondant up, seal it up in plastic bag, seal tight box or wrap it in cling film ... should keep pretty well until you need it - ready for an emergency or end of winter feeding ...

http://www.edinburghbeekeepers.org.uk/downloads/Fondant-Recipe.pdf

 

[Tdod]

thanks Pargyle for the recipe it states 4 parts sugar 1 part water and a teaspoon of white vinegar...

how big are the parts in your experience have you made it from this recipe?

 

[pargyle]

thanks Pargyle for the recipe it states 4 parts sugar 1 part water and a teaspoon of white vinegar...

how big are the parts in your experience have you made it from this recipe?

I've made some .... I just used a Kilo of sugar and 250ml of water ... with a teaspoon of the vinegar - not sure what that does - but the fondant turned out fine.. It's reassuring that there are no preservatives in it when you make it yourself. I've got it wrapped in cling film and sealed in an Asda clip top freezer box (belt & braces for airtight). It was a bit softer than the commercial stuff but I assumed that was because it was fresh ... might use 200ml when I make it again.

Made it as an experiment just to see if it worked but will make some more around Xmas time in case they need it.

 

[Hombre]

How big are the parts in the recipe? It largely depends on the size of your pot. You don't want it to be much more than around half full when you are bringing sugar to the boil.

I have made up to 3kg at a time, but the thermal inertia means that you get to stir forever before witnessing any result.

Fondant is a super saturated solution of sugar and water. At a solution of around 3:1 or 4:1 sugar:water, only one thing is certain. That when it cools down that sugar is going to come out of solution and crystalise. You are only there stirring to ensure that it turns out nice and soft. Glucose syrup or powder can help keep it moist.

Glucose syrup, can be found by asking Mr G with the search string, "cake stuff glucose". 12.5kg will probably last you a few years and costs around £1.50 per kilo delivered.
Glucose powder, can be bought at most decent chemists in 500g or 600g boxes - I forget now because I have had a big bucket of syrup for the last two years.

Don't buy glucose syrup or powder from a supermarket unless you want to be robbed.

I remember a talk from a beekeeper back in the late nineties not long after varroa had arrived in the UK. I got the impression that back then the dunked bag of sugar was a standard winter lifesaver for hungry bees.

 

[Nige.Coll]

old way of emergency feeding still works.
an old guy told me to submerge the bag in water for a little while shake the excess water off poke a hole in it and pop it over the crown board hole.

it's not as good as fondant and i don't think it should be used as a replacement for it but if your in a mess all shops sell sugar.

 

[Tdod]

I've made some .... I just used a Kilo of sugar and 250ml of water ... with a teaspoon of the vinegar - not sure what that does - but the fondant turned out fine.. It's reassuring that there are no preservatives in it when you make it yourself. I've got it wrapped in cling film and sealed in an Asda clip top freezer box (belt & braces for airtight). It was a bit softer than the commercial stuff but I assumed that was because it was fresh ... might use 200ml when I make it again.

Made it as an experiment just to see if it worked but will make some more around Xmas time in case they need it.

made some of the fondant as described and used 200ml water and it seems to be ok but what is the right consistancy for fondant mine seems to be rather hard a bit like kendal mint cake if you know what that is like..

I would of thought it would be soft a bit like Playdoh or putty??

 

[enrico]

Bakers fondant is softer than Kendal mint cake, as you suggest, like play dough but sticky!
Don't worry though they will still use it if they need to!
E

 

[pargyle]

made some of the fondant as described and used 200ml water and it seems to be ok but what is the right consistancy for fondant mine seems to be rather hard a bit like kendal mint cake if you know what that is like..

I would of thought it would be soft a bit like Playdoh or putty??

Sounds a bit like mine was a bit too much water and yours was a bit too little then, sorry !

TBH I don't think the consistency is too critical, as long as you can roll it out into a sheet that you can put on the top of the frames it should be OK ... at the end of the day the bees will take it down and make it into what they want. I stored mine wrapped in clingfilm in an airtight box ready for when I may need it and I've just had a look at it ... it's gone a bit harder than when I first made it as well.

 

[Tdod]

I will try another batch in the week with a little more water, do you know why the white vinegar some of the other recipes use liquid glucose and instead of mixing with whisk they mix by hand neading it a bit like bread.

the more I have read into this the temperature seems to be a bit more critical than i thought i used a kitchen thermometer but perhaps over heated it maybe or even over whisked it are well I will try and be a bit more acurate next time....

I thought it needed to be soft so the bees could use it?

thanks for your help

 

[pargyle]

I will try another batch in the week with a little more water, do you know why the white vinegar some of the other recipes use liquid glucose and instead of mixing with whisk they mix by hand neading it a bit like bread.

No, I don't know ... there are several variants of recipe this was just the one that was recommended to me and I used.

the more I have read into this the temperature seems to be a bit more critical than i thought i used a kitchen thermometer but perhaps over heated it maybe or even over whisked it are well I will try and be a bit more acurate next time....

I guess I just got lucky !

I thought it needed to be soft so the bees could use it?

Yes ... to some extent, but I'm not sure it makes that much difference, old style beekeepers used to just dampen a bag of sugar and feed them with that - and if you have ever let a bag of sugar get damp then you will know it sets like concrete !

thanks for your help

 

[Tdod]

Thanks Pargyle.

not many things to do with bees go straight forward and I am always reliant on a bit of luck, but it all adds to the beekeeping experience..

many thanks for your help and comments merry christmas to you