Sublimox vs Varrox safety

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Apple 

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Well it's lunch time so I am sitting here reading this and I happen to have a packet of Api bioxal in front of me (not sprinkled on my sarnies by the way!). The packet directions indicate an EN149 FFP2 mask, gloves and eye protection for vaporization and handling the powder. Personally I use ffp3 masks as these are what we use at work and are better specified than the packet recommendation. There does seem to be a lack of standardisation for the grading of mask types especially because of the imported equipment freely available on the internet, so make sure that what you are using is of an equivalent rating to that prescribed either by the chemical manufacturer or HSE. I have no idea how this will relate to those who do not use the prescribed form of Oxalic acid and presumably don't keep records either!
Should I use all this PPE when eating Rhubarb pie ?
 

elainemary 

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This is the mask and filters I’ve bought. Started with the recommendation on the back of the API-Bioxal, checked with a bee inspector and then researched via the 3M website. Together with tightly fitting new pair of quality goggles and gloves, happy with my protection
 

The Poot 

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Think after all this I’m happy to stick with the varrox😳
 

Tim.S 

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Should I use all this PPE when eating Rhubarb pie ?
Joking aside I have worked for very many years in horticulture, both under cover and field scale operations and am also fully trained in the correct and legal use/application of chemicals. Poisoning however caused is not a laughing matter and those that treat this seriously are to be commended for taking both the safety of themselves and others seriously. I have seen first hand the results of carelessness/complacency and it can leave life long complications.
 

Apple 

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Joking aside I have worked for very many years in horticulture, both under cover and field scale operations and am also fully trained in the correct and legal use/application of chemicals. Poisoning however caused is not a laughing matter and those that treat this seriously are to be commended for taking both the safety of themselves and others seriously. I have seen first hand the results of carelessness/complacency and it can leave life long complications.
OMG that explains why Grandfather lived till 106!
Loved his rhubarb pie......
 

ericbeaumont 

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Video below explains this well.
The filter code was given verbally as 60921 and written on screen as 69021. Which is correct, and is it a standardised or manufacturer code? Turns out it's 60921, suitable for organic vapours, available in the UK and luckily an international 3M code and not specific to the US.

The boss, Bob Binnie, didn't believe vapours affect eyes but to be safe, made the operative wear glasses, around which vapour can creep.

All three on screen wore beards and didn't mention how a beard will reduce mask seal.

Apart from that, it was clear to me that the bloke doing the talk had little practical experience (he gained much of it from a conversation at 3am with 3M) and seemed unsure of his information.

Bob Binnie runs 2000 colonies in Georgia and was voted Beekeeper of the Year in 2003; that credibility will probably influence many of us (well, not me) to follow yet more flakey Youtube advice.
 

elainemary 

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The filter code was given verbally as 60921 and written on screen as 69021. Which is correct, and is it a standardised or manufacturer code? Turns out it's 60921, suitable for organic vapours, available in the UK and luckily an international 3M code and not specific to the US.

The boss, Bob Binnie, didn't believe vapours affect eyes but to be safe, made the operative wear glasses, around which vapour can creep.

All three on screen wore beards and didn't mention how a beard will reduce mask seal.

Apart from that, it was clear to me that the bloke doing the talk had little practical experience (he gained much of it from a conversation at 3am with 3M) and seemed unsure of his information.

Bob Binnie runs 2000 colonies in Georgia and was voted Beekeeper of the Year in 2003; that credibility will probably influence many of us (well, not me) to follow yet more flakey Youtube advice.
Hi, just to clarify 60921 is good for oxalic acid, 60926 gives extra protection for formic acid (for MAQ strips) as well as oxalic acid.
Elaine
 

Amari 

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All this is vague and will lead to trouble. Avoid Youtube methods and advice from downwind vapour dodgers (Castanea may not even have had that high-risk minimal benefit) and protect eyes, preferably with a full face mask; beards must be removed temporarily.

Specific advice is needed to limit risk and the correct filter spec. for OA sublimation as recommended by the Sublimox instructions is A2P3. A2 refers to level 2 of 3 for organic gases and vapours, and P3 refers to level 3 of 3 for particulates. Standard UK chart leaves no room for doubt.

View attachment 23459
Thanks for that and to others on other posts. However I'm still confused. Am I right in thinking that sublimated OA is particulate, in which case White Type P should suffice - or maybe A,B,E,& K which block gases and vapours will block particles as well?

My 3M mask is ABEK 1 but not P. Also marked EN14387, 2004 + A1:2008

Are you or pundits above able to say if this is OK for sublimating OA?

Thanks.
 

Erichalfbee 

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I’m lost now.
Mine is FFA1P2 R D Filters, 4251, EN safety certified
Have used it for a while and never had a whiff of anything
 

pargyle 

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I’m lost now.
Mine is FFA1P2 R D Filters, 4251, EN safety certified
Have used it for a while and never had a whiff of anything
It should be fine ... OA is a sublimate - you are not going to be breathing the gaseous state: I wish people would pontficate when they know what they are talking about:

"Effective and comfortable protection against organic vapours, inorganic vapours, acid gases and hazardous particulates"
 

madasafish 

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Just finished vaping 12 colonies. FP3 mask.

Still alive and breathing..:eek:
 

ericbeaumont 

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Are you or pundits above able to say if this is OK for sublimating OA?
Check the colour chart above: ABEK represents four of the gas & vapour classifications shown, but it doesn't cover you for particulates. This 3M chart explains on page 2.

Dani's filter is A1P2, so has the lowest of the 3 organic vapour grades and the middle grade of 3 particulate grades; the R represents reusable.

FFP stands for filtering facepiece and though an FFP3 is the highest grade of particulate filter it will not give protection against gas & vapour.

When sublimated, OA is often described as a gas or vapour, though it turns pretty quickly back into particulates.
 
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ChrisS 

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Loosely summarised: take much the same precautions with OA as Covid and you'll be okay!

I must remember to wear my mask when chopping carrots or rhubarb...
 

philipm 

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I've been researching face masks for oxalic acid protection. The filters need to be EN14387 spec. I ended up buying a JSP Force 8 half mask and Organic Vapour A2 cartridges from Screwfix for £24 total which strikes me as very reasonable. Apart from that, I wear my usual long cuff gloves to keep the crystals off my skin and I keep my hands well away from my face. Bit like Covid precaustions really.

There's a certain amount of scaremongering about the danger of handling/using oxalic acid.
Fact 1: there's about the same amount of OA in a pound of carrots as in one hive treatment.
Fact 2: OA is very widely sold as a wood/metal cleaner with no safety restrictions.
Fact 3: OA crystals won't burn dry skin. You can stick a dry finger in a tub of OA with no harm - but do rinse it well afterwards!
Fact 4: OA will burn wet skin and mucous membranes.

So just ensure you keep the crystals and vapour away from your eyes and nose. It's actually very difficult to breathe in much of the vapour as it makes you cough like hell...
There may be the same amount of oxalic in carrots but you don't vape carrots.
 

Curly green finger's 

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I know there's talk of masks, but I was wondering what you thought of the Bhutan Gasvap?,
I've watched a few videos it's only a little Diddy thing and I wonder vapping a few hives like 20 or 30 how it would stand up in comparison to my sublimox??
 

Karol 

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<snip>

When sublimated, OA is often described as a gas or vapour, though it turns pretty quickly back into particulates.
Deposition will be affected by relative humidity. From a safety point of view might be prudent not to treat on a foggy day.
 

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