Sublimation

[Goran]

As claimed, they just taste it not ingest much. We here do only trickling at my place and strength of colonies in spring vary from strong to weak what isn't primary result of oxalic acid. It is result of other things mostly caused by beekeeper.
I heard some use sublimation cause it is easier to them. Fine, but for me I won't change the way which proven efficient.

 

[richardbees]

Maybe some beeks have forgotten about how critical timing is with the trickling method?

Both year's I've used it exactly on the 21st day after the first hard frost in my Apiary, perhaps the treatment wouldn't have have been so 'efficacious' if the timing had been less precise?

 

[dpearce4]

Maybe some beeks have forgotten about how critical timing is with the trickling method?

Both year's I've used it exactly on the 21st day after the first hard frost in my Apiary, perhaps the treatment wouldn't have have been so 'efficacious' if the timing had been less precise?

what temp do u class as a hard frost?

 

[itma]

Maybe some beeks have forgotten about how critical timing is with the trickling method?
...

Its not about timing per se (for efficacy).
It is about treating when they are broodless.

And exactly equally so for sublimation and trickling, unless you have some different information?

 

[REDWOOD]

You could get on of these and probably not much more expensive than a heavy duty battery,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rhyas-Pet...-Camping-Caravan-Motorhome-850W-/271020639716

 

[Hivemaker.]

Not sure I understand the logic of vapourising being less harse.

Just for the sake of it, we could carry out a simple experiment to find out which treatment is least harmful to the bees.

 

[Heather]

Its not about timing per se (for efficacy).
It is about treating when they are broodless.

At the same talk it was suggested - go into the hive 3 days before treating and remove any brood frame- move frames up to remove gap made- water jet brood out ensuring nothing left for varroa to hide in. Then replace the frames previously removed, and treat. Varroa no hiding place and will be on bees, so more will be destroyed.
As long as done during a dry spell of weather no problem to bees.

 

[richardbees]

At the same talk it was suggested - go into the hive 3 days before treating and remove any brood frame- move frames up to remove gap made- water jet brood out ensuring nothing left for varroa to hide in

blimey!

 

[itma]

At the same talk it was suggested - go into the hive 3 days before treating and remove any brood frame- move frames up to remove gap made- water jet brood out ensuring nothing left for varroa to hide in. Then replace the frames previously removed, and treat. Varroa no hiding place and will be on bees, so more will be destroyed.
As long as done during a dry spell of weather no problem to bees.

Yes - just as I said before!

If this is the LASI research, the difference between the varroa kills with sublimation and trickling was EXTREMELY marginal - iirc from the open day it was something like the difference between 94 and 96%.
LASI would make the point that UNLESS you followed their protocol of culling sealed brood before treatment, then you would be wrong to expect "statistically significant" differences between the two methods.
...

 

[alanf]

You could get on of these and probably not much more expensive than a heavy duty battery,

That looks a lot like one of the Chinese made 2 stroke generators sold under a variety of names from 50 quid upwards. I bought one as an alternative to hiring a rechargeable hammer drill over a week - I could use a 230V one I already had. It worked, and more or less covered it's cost on that job. A few months later I tried it again and while the engine started there was no power from the alternator.

It was about the weight of a full size car battery, so you're not saving a lot of carrying. A more portable alternative for running a varrox would be what is sold as a "jump starter" essentially a 12V lead acid gel leisure battery in a box with a handle. They come with leads attached and and voltmeter, start at around 20 quid and claim 17Ah batteries. In theory at 150W or 12A/12V for 3 minutes that's 30 treatments. Don't count on that because the capacity is grossly overstated. They also don't last for many months before they won't hold much charge at all I found, but they could have done a couple of hives at the end of a lane. Since I wanted an actual jump starter/portable power source, I replaced the battery with a decent deep discharge replacement one designed for wheel chairs and golf carts that was closer to the spec it claimed for around 40 quid.

 

[sunhivebee]

Just for the sake of it, we could carry out a simple experiment to find out which treatment is least harmful to the bees.

That sounds like an excellent idea. The method suggested in the talk Heather attended is precisely the one I learnt myself, with the exception of water jetting the brood. That really does sound a bit drastic? It would be less disruptive to cut it out. For the efficacy of the treatment it is vital to do it, though, as broodfree periods just don't seem to ever occur in Britain.

As for which method is easier on the bees .... hmmmm ..... when I last performed the evaporation the "groan" of the colony was such that it persuaded me to throw in my lot with the "no-treatment nutters". The term, incidentally, came to my attention when a certain Welsh bee inspector announced his decision to do just that. I'd love to meet him, in case he's hanging out here

Anyway, good luck with the testing, should someone go ahead with that idea.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I have a feeling the reason a car battery is suggested over a motorcycle is that most beeks have them to hand, well in their car and most beeks that have out apiaries would drive to them most times I would think. The cost of the varrox is also quite high the big t sells it at £132 so not something most small beekeepers would buy I would think. your looking at the total cost of over £160 with cost of mask which is getting very expensive for a 1 or 2 hive owner, but a beeks with 20 or more it would seem more viable.

Ebay search for Varrox vaporiser gives a device for £26 plus £8 postage. New item from Ukraine.

 

[VEG]

There must be a reason that they are that price. Has anyone bought one of the cheap ones? If so have they lasted.


Craig

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

As sunhivebee points out, any OA method requires an opening and brood cull. The evidence suggests my poly hive is near a brood minimum. I find the whole idea horrifying, with nightmares of frozen queens etc but what are the conditions required, beyond dry weather? Is there a temperature minimum?

 

[Aggravated]

Looking at the Varrox vaporizer on eba y, the power cord looks very thin, and if you need to preheat it before use, I would question its efficiency.

I made my own one, using a glow plug from a diesel engine and getting a model engineering friend to machine up a small aluminium bowl.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

There must be a reason that they are that price. Has anyone bought one of the cheap ones? If so have they lasted.


Craig

Probably because theres b....r all involved in making one going by the photo. I have never seen the Th version but I'd be amazed if there was a hundred quid value difference.

 

[VEG]

I'm not saying thornz are selling them at the right price. There are so many cheap crap copies of things about that just don't last. Sometimes it is a case of buy cheap buy twice. That is why I asked has anyone actually bought one of the cheaper ones to see if they last more than one or two seasons.


Craig

 

[alanf]

I'm not saying thornz are selling them at the right price.

Agrinova sell the genuine Varrox at under 100 pounds inc VAT.

No connection with either company.

 

[Heather]

As sunhivebee points out, any OA method requires an opening and brood cull. The evidence suggests my poly hive is near a brood minimum. I find the whole idea horrifying, with nightmares of frozen queens etc but what are the conditions required, beyond dry weather? Is there a temperature minimum?

Dont worry re opening. They open in thick snow conditions in other parts of the world.
Brood minimum means some varroa there.. they multiply VERY fast so better NO brood.
A towel over the frames not being inspected will keep some warmth in, but bees will cope.

Re not liking the uncapping, shower hosing, cleaning method - 2 days in the freezer, bring the frame back up to sensible temp then replace in the hive before treatment may be more acceptable to some people.. just remember that frame must be back to room temp though.

 

[Tom Bick]

The Thorne’s job seems to have a cup that looks like it may measures out the 1g of oxalic when full?

And the cheap ebay job has a tray and they say 2-3g of oxalic? either way I can see oxalic been knocked off the tray when slid in through the entrance.

There’s obviously a bit of difference on the dose from both suppliers and may indicate the efficiency of the two products.

Just to add the one that Mais m ore sell they recommend two 1g tablets and the tablets would be a better method of application and measuring of dose in the field.