Spotty brood pattern

[Into the lions den]

I wonder (with your experience) , if it's EFB, would you consider a change of queen for a genetic refresh but at the same time do a shook swarm perhaps?

No...would not bother...best got rid of and split something healthy.

My thoughts are chalk brood you can see mummified larvae

Often see the two together. Regardless of which it is not a good situation. Whether it is a notifiable disease or not is largely a formality. This colony is not going to do well.

 

[Curly green finger's]

No...would not bother...best got rid of and split something healthy.

Often see the two together. Regardless of which it is not a good situation. Whether it is a notifiable disease or not is largely a formality. This colony is not going to do well.

Aye I agree .

 

[noumenon]

I called the bee inspector this morning. He can't tell from the photos, but is coming this week to have a look.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I called the bee inspector this morning. He can't tell from the photos, but is coming this week to have a look.

That’s good. I hope it’s not something that could impact any other bees you have.
Let us know what they say.

 

[ericbeaumont]

would not bother

Agree. Seen shook swarming done a couple of times and EFB returned.

Remember Patrick's solution? He wrote here of 96 colonies in two apiaries, some with EFB, and that he killed and burned the lot.

Livestock management - which we all do, amateur or pro - means making strong decisions and getting it done.

Heard today from an SBI that the threshold for shook swarming light EFB has dropped from 50% infection to 25.

 

[Antipodes]

Agree. Seen shook swarming done a couple of times and EFB returned.

Remember Patrick's solution? He wrote here of 96 colonies in two apiaries, some with EFB, and that he killed and burned the lot.

Livestock management - which we all do, amateur or pro - means making strong decisions and getting it done.

Heard today from an SBI that the threshold for shook swarming light EFB has dropped from 50% infection to 25.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5619233/
With so many bees apparently carrying M. plutonis in apiaries without EFB that are near apiaries with clinical symptoms, surely it wouldn't be hard to get reinfected again (if your apiary happens to be near)?

The quote below is from the article (linked) above.

"Through hemi-nested PCR, Belloy et al. (2007) identified honeybees carrying M. plutonius in more than 90% of colonies without EFB symptoms within EFB symptomatic apiaries. Moreover, bees carrying M. plutonius were found in approximately 30% of colonies in apiaries without EFB symptoms located near apiaries with clinical symptoms of EFB (Belloy et al., 2007)"

 

[PeaBee]

Hard to tell with a 2D photo but maybe a bit of a twist going on?

 

[pargyle]

I called the bee inspector this morning. He can't tell from the photos, but is coming this week to have a look.

There are two things ...

1. Apiary hygiene is now really important. Don't go poking around in the hive until the bee inspector has had a look. Give your bee suit a good wash, sterilise any tools you used when you inspected and anything else that may have come into contact with the colony.

2. Don't panic. There are a few cells where the brood looks decidedly dodgy, there are numerous chalk brood mummies in cells and there are a lot of cells with perforations, there are some with sunken cappings and whilst these can be indicators of EFB it is a classic case of an unhealthy colony and it may not be EFB. A heavy varroa load can lead to PMS and the symptons evident in the photos are very similar.

ITLD is right - it's a colony that is unhealthy in many ways and it's a lost cause whether it is EFB or not. Whether EFB is diagnosed or not you are resigned to starting again, if you only have one colony, in some ways that's a good thing - an apiary with lots of colonies and EFB present is a tragedy.

The future and what you do next will depend upon what the Bee Inspector finds. Good luck, do let us know how you get on.

 

[Swarm]

Nice post, Phil.

 

[Antipodes]

there are numerous chalk brood mummies in cells

I have to say, I'm a bit worried as I can't see "numerous chalkbrood mummies in cells". I've got my glasses on too. Can you please point them out for me?

 

[pargyle]

I have to say, I'm a bit worried as I can't see "numerous chalkbrood mummies in cells". I've got my glasses on too. Can you please point them out for me?

 

[Antipodes]

That section you have pointed out doesn't appear to me to contain "numerous chalkbrood mummies in cells". Although the image is somewhat blurred, the dark object in the uncapped cell to the upper right looks to me like a pupa in late stage (when they turn dark) and with the capping removed, but not a chalkbrood mummy. I actually can't see any cells at all in the photos that I can confidently say have chalkbrood mummies in them. That's not to say the colony doesn't have chalkbrood (see the advice of ITLD in post #18) or that there are no chalkbrood mummies elsewhere in the colony of of course.

 

[Ian123]

Must admit I can’t see any mummies.

 

[Moobee]

Are we looking at the same pictures? I can see loads of chalkbrood…..

 

[noumenon]

I'm heartbroken, it's EFB. The inspector has advised that as it's quite advanced, a shook swarm is unlikely to work, so sadly destruction is the only remaining option.

 

[joebeewhisperer]

My colony seems to be doing well, but I'm a little worried about the brood pattern. Once I shook the bees off, it looks really sparse compared to what I would have expected. Should I be concerned?

View attachment 35916

View attachment 35917

And the worst frame on the outside edge...

View attachment 35918

My guess is a serious protein deficiency. She is refilling cells where eggs that have likely been cannibalized (chilled and removed also possible). In my experience, a queen that fizzles out begins laying drone eggs and eventually has nothing else to lay. This girl is trying, and still laying worker eggs.

I’m generally getting away from putting foodstuffs inside the hives. It is rampant in the US, as commercial beeks ramp up early populations with pollen patties. Nothing particularly wrong with the practice, and I’ll still do it where needed, but it’s just extra work, and has its own set of complications (hive beetle nursery for instance).

If this hive was in my yard they would have a small bit of pollen patty squeezed thin for max exposure, like today. No more than I thought they’d consume in 4-5 days.

Last spring I opened a hive that looked worse than this, with deformed wing and other issues. I realized that in making splits or nucs, I had left them void of stored pollen through the winter. While I was sickened that my negligence had caused it (probably not the case with you), I acted immediately. This handful of sick bees was turned around and was eventually very productive, though 4-5 weeks later than others.

edit: I didn’t read all posts mentioning EFB. It’s fairly common here, but my advice would stand, treating nutritional need first, then requeen if not turned around within 1 brood cycle. But this may be like CBPV and many other issues you guys face. I can find 3-4K bees here with the coloring of CBPV, and over time many times that number. While I’m sure it shortens individual lives, I’ve yet to see a single bee trembling and disoriented from it. Please forgive my ignorance, as all beekeeping is local, as are the challenges.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My guess is a serious protein deficiency.

It’s EFB. We are slowly coming round to destruction as we already do for AFB.

 

[Erichalfbee]

so sadly destruction is the only remaining option.

That’s always a gut wrenching thing to do. Have had to destroy one colony myself. Hated it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It’s EFB. We are slowly coming round to destruction

Apart from the shook swarm obsessives

 

[Wilco]

I'm heartbroken, it's EFB. The inspector has advised that as it's quite advanced, a shook swarm is unlikely to work, so sadly destruction is the only remaining option.

Sorry to hear that and for my incorrect thought earlier in the thread. Well done for getting the inspector in and doing the right thing.