Solid or Mesh Floors

[SteveG]

Attended a zoom webinar tonight, guest speaker Ged Marshall. one subject mentioned damp/mould in winter.
Ged confirmed he has solid floor and mesh with Nucs.

 

[user 819]

Vented floors with top insulation and some in Poly broods.
No major damp though some fine drops of moisture/condensation on the poly cb outer edges. Previously most of my damp issues were leaking roofs now they are 100% having fibre glassed them.

 

[seillean mil]

Attended a zoom webinar tonight, guest speaker Ged Marshall. one subject mentioned damp/mould in winter.
Ged confirmed he has solid floor and mesh with Nucs.

That's interesting; I was just about to pose the question, "how many people use a mesh above a solid floor?"

I hadn't previously considered that as an option. The message I've been getting has been to use an open mesh floor all year round. Instinctively I've started to think, that in a temperate and windy location, there's more than enough ventilation provided simply by having a permanently open "front door". I've started to leave the varroa tray in full-time, but a solid floor beneath that would be the bees-knees. I have a lot of insulation on walls and roof and doubt that mould would become an issue.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's interesting; I was just about to pose the question, "how many people use a mesh above a solid floor?"

Does he really mean he has mesh on top?
Does he mean he has solid floors in his hives but mesh floors in his nucs?
Perhaps Steve might elucidate

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have mesh but reduced to half the area in most hives, all with UFE
Stan has made two solid floors for me to try next season

 

[madasafish]

I have both mesh and solid floors on hives and nucs. No apparent differences but a trend of more winter losses on OMFs on hives.

Never a major problem with hives in hot weather, but nucs NEED OMFs on hot days.. Absconding is a risk. (We do have odd 30C+ days )

I have floor closures for OMFs in nucs as it can be very windy here and all my hives and nucs are on stands.

 

[SteveG]

Does he really mean he has mesh on top?
Does he mean he has solid floors in his hives but mesh floors in his nucs?
Perhaps Steve might elucidate

Nucs - Mesh Floor
Hives - Solid Floor

 

[seillean mil]

Does he really mean he has mesh on top?
Does he mean he has solid floors in his hives but mesh floors in his nucs?

.....good point; I think I misread that....probably solid floors on a hive and mesh floor on a nuc.
I still wonder about the possible benefit having a mesh floor a couple of cm. above a sealed, solid floor on a hive during a cold, windy winter.

 

[Erichalfbee]

.....good point; I think I misread that....probably solid floors on a hive and mesh floor on a nuc.
I still wonder about the possible benefit having a mesh floor a couple of cm. above a sealed, solid floor on a hive during a cold, windy winter.

Only if you can remove the solid floor to clean it.

 

[seillean mil]

Only if you can remove the solid floor to clean it.

That would be easy enough to design and make; do we ever hear of people using that arrangement?

 

[North End Bees]

That would be easy enough to design and make; do we ever hear of people using that arrangement?

If you can remove the solid floor under the omf to clean it, then it's a drawer.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm sorry, but what is the survey asking?
It all seems very ambiguous - is the question 'Do you have damp mouldy hives? if so, do you have OMF or solid floors?

Or something else?

 

[Jeffwoad]

I have solid floors and in winter I put 'pots snuggle boards' on top of the crown board (instead of under the floor like they are designed for) this give me thick "loft" insulation. I just don't believe (even if the bees don't die) that mesh floors are better homes for my bees than solid floors, in the summer it causes them stress with wasps and hornets literally visible trying to get in and attack and the howling north wind through the winter ripping through the hive (imagine your house with a mess floor in the living room and a very lose fitting plastic board under it in winter, you properly wouldn't die but it would be a awful Christmas). Bees for billions of years have lived in hives with solid floors and insulated roofs.... we call then 'trees'! If you have is insulated roof no condensation forms on it so no damp drops to fall back down on the cluster, if any does form it's on the outside walls and out of the way (you can even eliminate this of insulate the sides). Anyway the upshot is my bees have a lovely dark, warm, draft free snuggly home to live in.... just like a tree

 

[Amari]

I'm sorry, but what is the survey asking?
It all seems very ambiguous - is the question 'Do you have damp mouldy hives? if so, do you have OMF or solid floors?

Or something else?

I attended the same webinar as SteveG's OP. The question arose when Ged showed a winter view of his apiary with his hive roofs covered with a thin layer of snow. The roofs showed thin lines of melt which Ged said was the heat rising from below = a useful guide as to how many seems of bees there are!! A participant asked if he used under roof insulation (= No). Only 'a little mould etc' because he ensures ventilation. No mention of matchsticks.

When the participant suggested that the better combo might be OMF and roof insulation with no top ventilation, Ged explained that he uses solid floors in his hives but OMF in his nucs.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That would be easy enough to design and make; do we ever hear of people using that arrangement?

Yes. I call it an inspection tray

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I attended the same webinar as SteveG's OP. The question arose when Ged showed a winter view of his apiary with his hive roofs covered with a thin layer of snow. The roofs showed thin lines of melt which Ged said was the heat rising from below = a useful guide as to how many seems of bees there are!! A participant asked if he used under roof insulation (= No). Only 'a little mould etc' because he ensures ventilation. No mention of matchsticks.

When the participant suggested that the better combo might be OMF and roof insulation with no top ventilation, Ged explained that he uses solid floors in his hives but OMF in his nucs.

That's a bit of clarity regards Ged, but still, what are we being asked here? The OP mentions damp then asks what floors we use with no further elaboration on the damp issue.
Just by answering 'yes I have OMF/Solid floor' am I then confirming I have mould issues? or confirming I don't?
Thus far, the only thing this survey will achieve is finding out what kind of floor the respondent uses, if that's the objective, fine, but in that case why mention damp.
Just for clarification, I use OMF in nucs, OMF and a few solid floors on full hives, all top insulated with no 'ventilation' and don't experience damp or mould in any.

 

[seillean mil]

Yes. I call it an inspection tray

An inspection-tray is a long way from being as draught-proof as a solid, fitted floor. I'm conjecturing about having all three components; a solid floor with a mesh floor above, and the option to monitor mite drop with a removable board which doesn't increase or reduce ventilation when fitted or removed.

 

[Bee Bumble]

These floors look interesting, they permit a vented floor in the summer (or for moving) and solid in the winter.

https://www.modernbeekeeping.co.uk/honey-paw-langstroth/hive-floor-with-ventilation-board
I may try some next year. They are offered by the manufacturer with either plastic or aluminium mesh, but only plastic is available from MB.

 

[Erichalfbee]

An inspection-tray is a long way from being as draught-proof as a solid, fitted floor.

Fair enough but I was talking about MY inspection trays which is why I said “I call” rather than “they are called”
My floors are half omf half solid with an under floor entrance and the inspection tray fits snugly into a groove at the front and along the sides. The back is easily blocked off.
Be aware that if you have a mesh floor with a solid one underneath you will have to clear the debris practically every day because the bees won’t be able to do it.
If you are thinking of your set up to give the bees a solid floor and you the option of measuring mite levels please consider that natural drop is a wholly inaccurate way if doing it.

 

[North End Bees]

An inspection-tray is a long way from being as draught-proof as a solid, fitted floor. I'm conjecturing about having all three components; a solid floor with a mesh floor above, and the option to monitor mite drop with a removable board which doesn't increase or reduce ventilation when fitted or removed.

That depends on your arrangement. If you just have a simple slide-in insert, then there's also ventilation.

For my plain correx inserts I fill the end space with a strip of foam. This is useful in August when doing varroa treatments as it's also a peak time for silent robbing under the omf after the flow.

I also have some floors with ply inserts which are more tightly fitted and have an end cap. I'll dig one out and take a photo this afternoon.

A permanent solid floor under an omf is an invitation for wax moth as it would be difficult to clean regularly enough.