Soft set from recently extracted honey

[Levitt53]

I am going to try to make soft set honey this year assuming there is going to be lots of OSR around me as there always is. Someone in my local association told me that he makes his soft set from his spring honey before it has crystallised. He extracts it, leaves it 24 hours, adds the 10% of soft set, leaves it another 24 hours, jars it and then leaves it to set. He says this works fine. It seems a much simpler method than waiting for it to crystallise and then melting it all down. Does anyone else do it this way?

 

[Newbeeneil]

I have set unset honey. It works fine.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes. Same here.

 

[Levitt53]

great thanks.

 

[Ian123]

Entirely up to you how to do it we all have our systems. If you have osr extracted and in buckets it really won’t take long to set, plus I’ve always had more frosting with osr if it’s bottled directly plus it’s harder imo. I also can’t see a need for the seed if you’re using osr. But as above give it a go if it works happy days!

 

[Levitt53]

I just wasn't sure if it needed to crystallise first. I don't really understand the chemical process to be honest but I'll give it a go.

 

[Amari]

I am going to try to make soft set honey this year assuming there is going to be lots of OSR around me as there always is. Someone in my local association told me that he makes his soft set from his spring honey before it has crystallised. He extracts it, leaves it 24 hours, adds the 10% of soft set, leaves it another 24 hours, jars it and then leaves it to set. He says this works fine. It seems a much simpler method than waiting for it to crystallise and then melting it all down. Does anyone else do it this way?

I don't really understand the chemical process to be honest .

I note you have seven hives, say 2 supers (at least) of OSR per hive, = at least 200lbs honey = 20lbs of seed needed on your 10% formula! I agree with @Ian123 that seed not needed for OSR, just repeated stirring.

I don't understand the physics of crystallisation either, particularly with summer honey (bramble, lime, willow herb etc around here). I seed my summer honey with soft-set OSR and get variable results - sometimes excellent, sometimes frosted++ with 'scum' on the surface despite trying to remove this with cling film. Do folk warm their jars before running in the honey?

 

[Levitt53]

Entirely up to you how to do it we all have our systems. If you have osr extracted and in buckets it really won’t take long to set, plus I’ve always had more frosting with osr if it’s bottled directly plus it’s harder imo. I also can’t see a need for the seed if you’re using osr. But as above give it a go if it works happy days!

I note you have seven hives, say 2 supers (at least) of OSR per hive, = at least 200lbs honey = 20lbs of seed needed on your 10% formula! I agree with @Ian123 that seed not needed for OSR, just repeated stirring.

So why would I not need a seed if using OSR? What would stop it just crystallising as it would have done anyway.

 

[Ian123]

So why would I not need a seed if using OSR? What would stop it just crystallising as it would have done anyway.

You don’t need a seed with osr it will likely have crystals in it when you extract. Leave it to settle in a cool room and it’ll likely start setting in the tank. If you can keep it moving gently for a day or 2 bottle just before you think you’ll struggle getting it out the tank…. Personally I prefer to bucket it first and use as needed.

 

[Amari]

So why would I not need a seed if using OSR? What would stop it just crystallising as it would have done anyway.

You don’t need a seed with osr it will likely have crystals in it when you extract. Leave it to settle in a cool room and it’ll likely start setting in the tank. If you can keep it moving gently for a day or 2 bottle just before you think you’ll struggle getting it out the tank…. Personally I prefer to bucket it first and use as needed.

I don't understand the physics Levitt but, as Ian, I run the OSR into buckets and jar it as needed: I warm two 30lb buckets of solid OSR @ c.40C for c. 24hrs in a warming cabinet. It becomes liquid and I stir with a 'paint stirrer' in a drill for a few minutes a couple of times. I then pour both buckets into my settling tank and stir again. Then run into jars.
This usually yields soft-set honey that stays that way.
I can't claim it's infallible - maybe it depends on other variable ingredients in the honey eg. dandelion, hawthorn, sycamore.

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes OSR will have crystals in it and frankly that's the issue. What the target is, is a smooth buttery honey which fails utterly to drip off the spoon or toast and feels beautifully velvety on the tongue.

To achieve this the critical fact is the crystal size. It needs to be as small as possible. Big crystals are rough on the palate.

So to get to the process let the extracted honey set if it wants to and if not well that's a bonus in time. Take the set honey and liquify it. Why? Because you are going to take control of the crystallisation process and give it the seed that you have. You can grind honey in a pestle to a fine consistency or do what I did 30 years ago and buy a jar of soft set and use that to build up your seed stock from. When the seed is added to the liquid honey then stir it. When it sets make sure it is well set and it may well still feel hard. Warm it to the point of mobility then stir again and again then bottle. It may well look white.

I did all this last week so I know it works. I'll add I've sold tons of soft set....

PH

 

[enrico]

Just a stupid question as I now have a jar of my own soft set to use as seed..... Do you have to melt the seed honey before you add it? I am guessing not but ......
Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just a stupid question as I now have a jar of my own soft set to use as seed..... Do you have to melt the seed honey before you add it? I am guessing not but ......
Thanks

I just heat it up at about 30°C for half an hour so it mixes better with the liquid honey (also at about 30°c)

 

[enrico]

I just heat it up at about 30°C for half an hour so it mixes better with the liquid honey (also at about 30°c)

Thanks

 

[DanBee]

Yes OSR will have crystals in it and frankly that's the issue. What the target is, is a smooth buttery honey which fails utterly to drip off the spoon or toast and feels beautifully velvety on the tongue.

...

Agree with your post.

The reason that OSR does not generally need seeding is that pure OSR honey sets finely and so is an excellent seed in its own right. Sometimes OSR comes in with dandelion, though, which granulates coarsely, and you can end up with fine set OSR littered with 'sugar crystals' of coarse dandelion honey granulated. Do not use this blend as seed.

There are two processes -

1) seeding to improve/control crystallisation texture - i.e. grittiness;

2) 'creaming' to reduce a solid set honey to a paste - i.e. spreadability

It can be an either/or situation, not automatically both as in the case of a honey with fine texture already.

For seeding you need to liquefy and cool the 'gritty' honey, warm the set seed enough that it is pliable but not enough that liquid honey appears around the edges. 30-40 seconds or so in the microwave per 1lb jar (lid on) should do it. Spoon it out and stir it in like a big milky swirl in the liquid honey. We use a paddle mixer in 30lb buckets for speed. Put somewhere cool and allow to set solid. If you bottle it before it sets it will usually have a fine texture but be rock solid in the jar. You've adjusted the grittiness but not the spreadability.

For creaming you need to warm the solid set honey gently but enough to make it pliable, but not so much that there is runny honey around the edges - this leads to frosting in the jars. Once pliable, cut with a pallette knife (or similar) then mash vigorously - we use a giant potato masher from a catering supplier. You're aiming for a fluid paste with no big lumps. Bottle whilst still pliable, and you will end up with a soft set honey in the jar that will firm up a little but stay as a spoonable, spreadable paste. Unless you previously seeded it then it will be a paste of whatever coarseness this honey naturally adopts. You've adjusted the spreadability but not the grittiness..

Taking both processes together allows control* over both grittiness and spreadability.

We've just gone through this process with a few buckets of ivy honey, makes a lovely caramel-coloured paste with a 'robust' flavour...

Dan.

* in as much as anything in beekeeping can be controlled by the beekeeper

 

[Poly Hive]

Agree with your post.

The reason that OSR does not generally need seeding is that pure OSR honey sets finely and so is an excellent seed in its own right. Sometimes OSR comes in with dandelion, though, which granulates coarsely, and you can end up with fine set OSR littered with 'sugar crystals' of coarse dandelion honey granulated. Do not use this blend as seed.

There are two processes -

1) seeding to improve/control crystallisation texture - i.e. grittiness;

2) 'creaming' to reduce a solid set honey to a paste - i.e. spreadability

It can be an either/or situation, not automatically both as in the case of a honey with fine texture already.

For seeding you need to liquefy and cool the 'gritty' honey, warm the set seed enough that it is pliable but not enough that liquid honey appears around the edges. 30-40 seconds or so in the microwave per 1lb jar (lid on) should do it. Spoon it out and stir it in like a big milky swirl in the liquid honey. We use a paddle mixer in 30lb buckets for speed. Put somewhere cool and allow to set solid. If you bottle it before it sets it will usually have a fine texture but be rock solid in the jar. You've adjusted the grittiness but not the spreadability.

For creaming you need to warm the solid set honey gently but enough to make it pliable, but not so much that there is runny honey around the edges - this leads to frosting in the jars. Once pliable, cut with a pallette knife (or similar) then mash vigorously - we use a giant potato masher from a catering supplier. You're aiming for a fluid paste with no big lumps. Bottle whilst still pliable, and you will end up with a soft set honey in the jar that will firm up a little but stay as a spoonable, spreadable paste. Unless you previously seeded it then it will be a paste of whatever coarseness this honey naturally adopts. You've adjusted the spreadability but not the grittiness..

Taking both processes together allows control* over both grittiness and spreadability.

We've just gone through this process with a few buckets of ivy honey, makes a lovely caramel-coloured paste with a 'robust' flavour...

Dan.

* in as much as anything in beekeeping can be controlled by the beekeeper

I agree with one proviso that in my experience OSR granulates big. This may well be a location issue or variety of OSR.

PH

 

[Ian123]

I agree with one proviso that in my experience OSR granulates big. This may well be a location issue or variety of OSR.

PH

OSR is normally a very small fine crystal and generally what many use as the seed. General rule of thumb… fast setting=smaller crystals….slow setting=lager crystals

 

[Garry R]

OSR is normally a very small fine crystal and generally what many use as the seed. General rule of thumb… fast setting=smaller crystals….slow setting=lager crystals

I'd like to get hold of a few of those lager crystals - rather than soft set you end up with a sort of mead?!!!

 

[Ian123]

I'd like to get hold of a few of those lager crystals - rather than soft set you end up with a sort of mead?!!!

Not sure what you mean….

 

[JamezF]

Not sure what you mean….

"lager crystals"

James