Small queen getting though excluder

[DRam]

I had some assistance from a more experienced bee keeper yesterday to find and mark our queens. In one hive that was just single brood and a super, we could see lots of eggs, young larva and sealed brood, but could not find the queen. We even tried shaking the frames through the excluder.

When we put the super back (on top of the queen excluder) there were a lot of bees on the super frames, and there were some eggs in cells, no sign of sealed brood through. We went through the super and still couldn't find her again.

The worry now is that she is squeezing through the excluder. How often do you get small queens, and will she grow in size? She is 3 to 4 week hatched

If we had chased her back through the super into the brood box I'm guessing that this is a major problem if we can't keep her out of the supers?

Is there an answer?

 

[enrico]

I had some assistance from a more experienced bee keeper yesterday to find and mark our queens. In one hive that was just single brood and a super, we could see lots of eggs, young larva and sealed brood, but could not find the queen. We even tried shaking the frames through the excluder.

When we put the super back (on top of the queen excluder) there were a lot of bees on the super frames, and there were some eggs in cells, no sign of sealed brood through. We went through the super and still couldn't find her again.

The worry now is that she is squeezing through the excluder. How often do you get small queens, and will she grow in size? She is 3 to 4 week hatched

If we had chased her back through the super into the brood box I'm guessing that this is a major problem if we can't keep her out of the supers?

Is there an answer?

It would be good to know what type of QE it is. Plastic ones can be faulty and metal ones can distort when being cleaned. It is also easy to put a queen excluder down on a super during inspection with the queen in it and she will pop into the super. Always check for her before you out the QE down and always turn it upside down so she can't get through.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Is there an answer?

One solution is to run the colony on double brood (probably next spring) because she'll have more space and less reason to go up.

Honey is a barrier which she's less likely to cross.

For now, as nectar comes into the super on the main flow she'll stay down, and as super brood emerges bees will backfill those combs.

 

[masterBK]

Problem could indeed be a faulty excluder. Swap it for a different one and check the one taken off. Most queens in supers are often down to the beekeepers procedure, rarely due to thin queens.

 

[DRam]

Thank you for your replies Enrico, Ericbeaumont and masterBK.

The excluder is a national wire excluder from Thornes, it is only a couple of months old and we have been very careful with it. It is probably not the problem, as suggested it could be my fault.


We do try and turn the excluder over so that the super side goes to the super and the brood side is up while inspecting the brood box, but I suppose we could have transferred the queen by mistake into the super.

We will look again mid-week, and be super careful she's not on the underneath of the excluder in future.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thank you for your replies Enrico, Ericbeaumont and masterBK.

The excluder is a national wire excluder from Thornes, it is only a couple of months old and we have been very careful with it. It is probably not the problem, as suggested it could be my fault.
View attachment 26814

We do try and turn the excluder over so that the super side goes to the super and the brood side is up while inspecting the brood box, but I suppose we could have transferred the queen by mistake into the super.

We will look again mid-week, and be super careful she's not on the underneath of the excluder in future.

You would know if you did because you would have no eggs under the QX

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

To keep in line with the ethos of the BBKA - there are a few things I do by rote, regardless of whether it's needed or not.
Always check the underside of the crown board for the queen, even when it's on a pile of supers and no chance of a queen being up that far. It's amazing how many times I have found queenie wandering around on the crown board (when the crownboard is on the brood box)
always rest the crownboard against the rear of the hive (or stand) away from the supers.
Always check the QX for presence of queen
Always rest the QX against the front of the hive, near the entrance (again, away from the supers)
and I still get the queen up in the supers occasionally!!

 

[holmbee]

I had some assistance from a more experienced bee keeper yesterday to find and mark our queens. In one hive that was just single brood and a super, we could see lots of eggs, young larva and sealed brood, but could not find the queen. We even tried shaking the frames through the excluder.

When we put the super back (on top of the queen excluder) there were a lot of bees on the super frames, and there were some eggs in cells, no sign of sealed brood through. We went through the super and still couldn't find her again.

The worry now is that she is squeezing through the excluder. How often do you get small queens, and will she grow in size? She is 3 to 4 week hatched

If we had chased her back through the super into the brood box I'm guessing that this is a major problem if we can't keep her out of the supers?

Is there an answer?

When I started beekeeping I did have a Q get through the QX just before the colony swarmed. The wire/wood QX came from a reliable source and the consensus was that she had been slimmed down ready to swarm. The swarm was retrieved and installed in a nuc so all ended well.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the consensus was that she had been slimmed down ready to swarm.

If she couldn't get through the QX before slimming down, she wouldn't after. it's only the abdomen that reduces - the thorax stays the same, and that's what stops her getting through.

 

[Erichalfbee]

and the consensus was that she had been slimmed down ready to swarm.

Whose consensus?
A queen’s widest diameter is her thorax which doesn’t change if she is starved.

 

[Colin buckingham]

Hi Sorry to Hijack you post but while we are the subject of Q,Es and Queens has anyone got any mated queens for sale in the Cheshire area UK Please
Apologies in advance

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Sorry to Hijack you post but while we are the subject of Q,Es and Queens has anyone got any mated queens for sale in the Cheshire area UK Please
Apologies in advance

Usual suppliers have plenty