Small Nuc under attack

[fizzle]

Friend just called me this morning to say his small Nuc was under attack from Wasps. Its a newly mated Queen and they are only about a frame of bees.

We moved the hive 100m and reduced the entrance. There was still a few wasps around after we moved them so not sure what to do now?

 

[Ian123]

If there’s only a frame of bees they probably don’t stand a chance I’d make up a reasonable nuc inc the original frame introducing the queen in a cage and move away. Could you take them to 1 of your sites and add a couple of frames of bees and sealed brood. I make up late Nucs and rear late queens but your expecting to much from so few bees IMO

 

[drdrday]

Try changing the nuc entrance too. I have a few inches of garden hose that I use to make a temporary tunnel entrance for poly nucs. The garden hose is smaller than the nuc entrance hole so I have duct tape wrapped around the hose an inch or two from the end so that it fits snuggly into the entrance hole. 3-4 inches of hose project into the nuc so that any wasp navigating that far along the hose has to come out right into the centre of the nuc where hopefully most of the bees are.
Unfortunately I think it's just a case of doing every little thing that you can to help them.

 

[Finman]

Friend just called me this morning to say his small Nuc was under attack from Wasps. Its a newly mated Queen and they are only about a frame of bees.

We moved the hive 100m and reduced the entrance. There was still a few wasps around after we moved them so not sure what to do now?

You must add a frame of emerging bees.


But when you moved the nuc, you got a worse problem. The nuc looses most of bees, because they return to the old site.

You may make a strong nuc over the big hive.
Put into the nuc 3 frames of emerging brood. Shake all existing bees away. In the heat of big hive brood will emerge. Close all entrances into the nuc.
When nuc has bee 3 days this way, there should be enough bees, which can handle robber wasps.

If the nuc has entrance to oppositio direction, the nuc can build up in the heat of the bigger hive. The nuc needs 2 pollen frames in it.

 

[fizzle]

Ok so if I move the hive back to original position and wait until later this evening for all returning bees then lock them in. Move hive tomorrow to my apiary and place them over another colony with mesh over crown board and put in some syrup and couple of frames of brood?

 

[fizzle]

We used plywood to block entrance and create a tunnel so only one bee can fit through at any one time.

 

[Karol]

Use of a high efficiency wasp trap sited at the tunnel entrance to the nuc would reduce wasp pressure. If a nuc has already been found by wasps then unless wasp pressure is actively reduced there is still a high probability that the nuc will be overcome.

 

[Ian123]

Don’t feed anything atm all your doing is ringing the dinner bell.

 

[fizzle]

Don’t feed anything atm all your doing is ringing the dinner bell.

Apologies for late reply.

I've moved them to my apiary this evening and put in a syrup feeder frame. Not put in any brood frames as it was late evening and when I opened one of my hives they were very aggressive so left it for tomorrow. Would it not be ok to leave in feeder for now and remove in a couple of days when I release them?

 

[fizzle]

I'm hoping they will draw out frames with 1:1 syrup rather than build up stores as they have fondant and pollen patty above crownboard.

 

[ericbeaumont]

very aggressive

As the bees were responding to an intruder late in the day their reaction was understandably very defensive. It could be argued that it was the intruder who was behaving aggressively...

 

[Patrick1]

I'm hoping they will draw out frames with 1:1 syrup rather than build up stores as they have fondant and pollen patty above crownboard.

The syrup at 1:1 is too thick, I use a diluted syrup nearer to nectar more like a 2:1 , if it is nearer to honey mix they will store, they can reduce moisture in syrups but it is much harder to ad sufficient moisture to build cells, a good strong smell from the foundation will help, the excess wax is used to help build cells.

 

[user 20297]

The syrup at 1:1 is too thick, I use a diluted syrup nearer to nectar more like a 2:1 , if it is nearer to honey mix they will store, they can reduce moisture in syrups but it is much harder to ad sufficient moisture to build cells, a good strong smell from the foundation will help, the excess wax is used to help build cells.

I've always read and assumed that 1:1 is a thin syrup and that 2:1 (sugar:water) is the thicker recipe. I've also read that it's not essential to keep to exact proportions. Sugar will have to be fully liquefied before being imbibed by a bee, so will it make any difference to the metabolic response of the bee, whether it's presented to the bee as a solid, a very viscous liquid or as a dilute syrup? If a bee at the right stage in its life has a stomach full of sugars and is unable to offload this fairly promptly, isn't that what involuntarily causes the secretion of wax?

 

[REDWOOD]

You must add a frame of emerging bees.


But when you moved the nuc, you got a worse problem. The nuc looses most of bees, because they return to the old site.

You may make a strong nuc over the big hive.
Put into the nuc 3 frames of emerging brood. Shake all existing bees away. In the heat of big hive brood will emerge. Close all entrances into the nuc.
When nuc has bee 3 days this way, there should be enough bees, which can handle robber wasps.

If the nuc has entrance to oppositio direction, the nuc can build up in the heat of the bigger hive. The nuc needs 2 pollen frames in it.

That was my thoughts adding frames of emerging brood. Don’t know what nuc you have but reduce the entrance size for now

 

[Ian123]

I think the idea was to add some emerging bees whilst closed. If there’s any external access watch the feed, fondant is less likely to draw intruders if you have it to hand. Just be aware it takes a little while for even a box full of young bees to put up any kind of defence.

 

[Finman]

I think the idea was to add some emerging bees whilst closed. If there’s any external access watch the feed, fondant is less likely to draw intruders if you have it to hand. Just be aware it takes a little while for even a box full of young bees to put up any kind of defence.

No need to feed the nuc when you give frames wich have food. This is the best way. It does not give hints to robbers.

And nuc must have so much bees, that every frame is occupied. So robbers can be caught inside the hive.

 

[Patrick1]

I've always read and assumed that 1:1 is a thin syrup and that 2:1 (sugar:water) is the thicker recipe. I've also read that it's not essential to keep to exact proportions. Sugar will have to be fully liquefied before being imbibed by a bee, so will it make any difference to the metabolic response of the bee, whether it's presented to the bee as a solid, a very viscous liquid or as a dilute syrup? If a bee at the right stage in its life has a stomach full of sugars and is unable to offload this fairly promptly, isn't that what involuntarily causes the secretion of wax?

I didn’t explain this verry well, 2:1 2 parts water to one part syrup, the reason for syrup is to reduce the amount of water required, bees produce wax from nectar, the closer we can get to nectar and at the same time save the bees time and energy would seem to be why it works for me.

 

[Finman]

I didn’t explain this verry well, 2:1 2 parts water to one part syrup, the reason for syrup is to reduce the amount of water required, bees produce wax from nectar, the closer we can get to nectar and at the same time save the bees time and energy would seem to be why it works for me.

The problem was a small colony and robbers.
Feeding the nuc, what ever the method is, will call wasps and robber bees to attack on the nuc.
And when the nuc is small, it will draw nothing foundations.

Works for me? Every colony can draw combs when it needs them. They draw even if you put capped frame into the nest.

I mean, there is no special skills in comb drawing. Bees can do it without a beekeeper.

 

[fizzle]

Thanks all for tips and information. I have moved them onto a main hive now and will check back in few days. I dont even know if the queen was there when I lifted them on as some bees dropped out the bottom. If this doesn't work I will just merge what's left with a main hive.

 

[fizzle]

One final thought...If I use a rhombus bee escape over the entrance would this help deter any robbers when I do open the hive (with reduced entrance also).