Slimming the queen

[Beeconcerned]

I was helping with a hive inspection yesterday. Double brood and a super, and bursting with bees. Drones were flying, and there were plenty inside. There were half built queen cells at positions from 1/3 way down to the bottom on some frames, none of them capped yet. I didn't see eggs in the cells, but I had forgotten my torch and glasses. The queen obligingly came walking out from between the frames, as large and fat as any I have seen.
The hive is overdue for a split, but that fat queen was not going to fly anywhere for a while. It set me wondering when exactly in the sequence of hive preparation for swarming is the queen 'slimmed down' and how long does it take?

 

[For want of a better word]

Some books say HM flies as soon as first swarm queen cell has a viable grubb in it, others once it is sealed, some say queen slims down and stops egg production.

If queen comes up to your standards, and if you have good drones in the vicinity, split colony down into nucs.... or remove queen to a nuc + sealed brood and break down all the queen cells in the colony, leave for 5 days.. remove any more queen cells, and then reunite with old queen.... may try to go for swarming again if a swarmy line!

There will follow very many different ideas all of them correct and thread will degenerate into the usual slagging match we seem to be suffering from those who hve more time to post on here than to beekeep.
My excuse... waiting for my crew to show up... they should have been here at 8.00 am!!!!

Yeghes da

 

[Poly Hive]

From the description, I think the colony is not in swarm mode. By "half built" queen cells I take it you are describing queen cups.

If a queen cup is there it is not a sign of swarming it is just the colony saving time for when they do decide to swarm.

An egg in a queen cup again is not a swarming sign.

A larvae in a queen cell for that is now what it is IS a sign of intent.

I hope that clarifies.

In response to the rather unpleasant post above I post to help not because I have nothing better to do. Off this afternoon to give my time, my wife's time and our dogs love to Alzheimer patients for instance under the Therapet scheme. More important than bees? Probably yes.

PH

 

[Finman]

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Queen cells milk inside or egg layed is a sure sign of swarming. I do not know what is "half built queen cell".


Queen cell cups are nothing. Neither are "drones flying". Drones fly in such hives too, which does not swarm. Every hive has drones and drones have wings.

The hive is full of bees => more boxes. And foundations are good too. Normal enlargening.

Slimmed queen.... Then you see already loaded queen cells.

Cant see eggs... Better to buy new glasses.
.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/There-Are-Queen-Cells-In-My-Hive-WBKA-WAG.pdf

 

[Finman]

http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/There-Are-Queen-Cells-In-My-Hive-WBKA-WAG.pdf

Yes, that is a profound booklet about issue.

An more:

1) enlarge the hive in time. Not too Late.

2) do artificial swarm at once when you see Queen cells.

3) buy material ready to artificial swarms: Foundations and frames.
.
4) normal bees swarm. Nothing odd in it. IT is more odd if a hive does not swarm

 

[Finman]

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Slimming of Queen has something hormonal, but is it in the colony or only in the Queen.

When I do artificial swarm, and the queen still lays and it is fat, it becomes still slimmer in the new swarm hive. It takes about 3 days, that the queen turn fat and starts again to lay. Often it takes sane time when bers start to draw foundations. But often hives start to draw combs next night. They use foudation wax to make cell walls.

 

[maddydog]

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Slimming of Queen has something hormonal, but is it in the colony or only in the Queen.

When I do artificial swarm, and the queen still lays and it is fat, it becomes still slimmer in the new swarm hive. It takes about 3 days, that the queen turn fat and starts again to lay. Often it takes sane time when bers start to draw foundations. But often hives start to draw combs next night. They use foudation wax to make cell walls.

Interesting. I've read that a colony about to swarm will starve and jostle the queen to slim her. Your observation would suggest there is more to it. Never seen it myself as I tend to leave the 'swarmed' half alone for a week or so.

 

[Finman]

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I look every day AS, when it start to draw combs. To me it is a sign that they are decided to accept the new home and swarming fever is over.

But last summer I noticed a new thing in my friends yard. Three colonies/10 lost their laying queen. They were clipped. It means that artificial swarms had tried to swarm and lost the clipped queen.

Carniolan makes that more often than Italians. I have met much such cases that artificial swarm continues swarming fever and the queen lays new queen cells.