Skep volume?

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TooBee...

Field Bee
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
583
Reaction score
2
Location
Ireland
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
2+ nucs
Hi
on another Thread the subject of Skeps came up, in the context of swarming bees, not wanting to clog that now completely off topic Thread I thought I better start another...

Does anyone know the internal volume (in litres or whatever) of a traditional (straw) Skep, I'm thinking the Irish Skep (if there's a difference).

I've read that there are three good things:
1. A small Cow,
2, A small Wife, :toetap05:
3. A small Skep.

This was written about 500 years ago, I think the first two was because they cost less to feed :eek: ... cough ... cough... thankfully our attitudes have changed... the small Skep was to ensure that the bees EACH year would swarm EARLY, and then would send two Castes out, so that THREE swarms occurred in one year !

If you wanted to increase your apiary you would combine the two castes and then have three hives going into winter.

I was wondering at what size would or could a Skep (proven to be the 2nd most thermally efficient hive) need to be to;
1. ensure that three swarms occurred each year,
and
2. be large enough for them to store enough food and over winter in.

(remember disease wasn't much of an issue then as it is now and food for them should have been plentiful).

If anyone knows of good online sources of good info. on Irish Skeps, that would be appreciated, I'm thinking it's got the be no bigger than a National Brood box?
 
How are you going to handle disease issues in skeps?

As well as swarming control?
.

Always the optimist :rolleyes:

;)

there's a growing small movement of beekeepers interested in 're-wilding' the bees, skeps have been suggested as an alternative to hollowing out a log, so it got me thinking if there was any literature, etc. about the old Irish Skeps?
 
Always the optimist :rolleyes:

;)

there's a growing small movement of beekeepers interested in 're-wilding' the bees, skeps have been suggested as an alternative to hollowing out a log,

Facts mean nothing to you. Varroa killed Wild bees and it will kill re-Wild bees.
 
Volume = (Pi R-squared)X Height

skeps have been suggested as an alternative to hollowing out a log,

The Horseless carriage was an alternative to the pony & trap.
However, more recently, someone invented the Motorway!

so it got me thinking if there was any literature, etc.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hawaiian-Canoe-Building-Traditions-Naomi/dp/0873360435/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1548525450&sr=1-1&keywords=building+dugout+canoes:smash:

If you want to try something traditional / old fashioned, you could try searching the use of matchsticks? :leaving:
 
Last edited:
there's a growing small movement of beekeepers interested in 're-wilding' the bees, skeps have been suggested as an alternative to hollowing out a log, so it got me thinking if there was any literature, etc. about the old Irish Skeps?

Why if they/you are trying to re wild bees are you putting them into skeps. They are as man made as any poly hive
 
You can line a skep with a large plastic bag and fill with water. Then pour the water into something like a home brew bucket with calibrations on the side to measure.
 
You can line a skep with a large plastic bag and fill with water. Then pour the water into something like a home brew bucket with calibrations on the side to measure.

You're a genius, that's probably the best way I can an answer! Thanks.
 
Was it not you that posted the link to Jane?

She thought a 20" by 20" high skep was too big to make which rather took me aback as that was pretty much the size of my last one.

So.... shes Irish.. ask her.

PH
 
From what I know of skeps they don't really have a specific volume, they were made in different sizes to suit conditions and bees.
The grass/straw/whatever is gathered together and held in either the hand or some sort of ring, a piece of cow horn was often used, that gave a uniform bundle size so the number of rounds/turns could easily be varied to produce taller skeps and the breadth was controlled by skill or a former of some sort.
 
Research shows that swarms seek out a cavity of about 40 litres if given a choice of cavities of various sizes ie about the size of a langstroth broodchamber.
 
I hope someone answers your question about average volume of a skep. I will point out some things that may be helpful:

A skep about 20 inches diameter at the base and 20 inches tall, would be close to 53 litres internal volume, assuming those are outside dimensions and the skep walls are an inch thick.

In Eva Crane's book, she gave dimensions for Mediterranean clay jar hives that were thousands of years old. Averaged around 60 litres.

In Derek Mitchell's recent article on beehives, he gave average dimensions for hives found inside trees. Came out almost exactly 60 litres.

Perhaps the insulating qualities of skeps says to put them down to a smaller volume, because you are in a colder than Mediterranean climate, and a skep isn't as good as a nest inside a tree.
 
In Beekeeping for All, Warré says that:
- a good skep should have a diameter of 30 cm and height of 80 cm (but notes that "You rarely find this.")
- 40 L volume is ideal, but over 30 L okay
- in autumn, a 40 L skep should weigh 20 kg and a 30 L one 15 kg. Half of these weights would be honey.
 
Research shows that swarms seek out a cavity of about 40 litres if given a choice of cavities of various sizes ie about the size of a langstroth broodchamber.

To be more accurate this research on cavity size was done with Americanised Italian Bees and so may not be true for other strains. Little research has been done on other strains preferred cavity size. But it's a good working maxim.

Interesting to note that the initial research showed they preferred an open chimney to any of the artificial cavities they provided...until it was blocked off.
For those unfamiliar with the research it was done on a island off the coast of America by Seeley.
 
The Warre ideal skep with base of 30cm and height of 80cm, comes out to a volume of 25 litres, assuming those are outer dimensions, and wall thickness of 1 inch. If wall thickness was negligable, you'd have a volume of 39 litres. Still surprises me what a difference that 1 inch of thickness makes.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top