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MrB 

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just completed my 3rd inspection.
Found queen this time and now she is marked :)
seen lots of brood in all stages, eggs through to capped cells.
Loads of honey and quite a bit of pollen.
a lot more bees in the box now, bees going onto the 9th frame and drawing it.
Also found and removed 2 or 3 play cups and a couple of queen cells containing royal jelly.
I have removed the dummy board and added the last 3 frames of foundation (so now 12 frames in the BB)
So, a couple of questions!

were the Q cells there as they were running out of room perhaps for the queen to lay?

Should i do an AS?

Should i add QX and a super?

Thanks
 
T

Tom Bick 

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I say go for the super I assume it will be foundation you can try it without the QE for a few days but when you put the QE on check that the queen is in the BB. Keep a close eye on the queen cells.
 

rae 

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8 and 3 nucs...it's swarm time...
Play cups with eggs are fine - meaningless in terms of intent to swarm. Play cups with larvae are the real deal, and if you do nothing, they will swarm some time before the cup/cell is capped.

If you have queen cups with larvae, then do an artificial swarm - you have about 7 days or less before they swarm on their own!

If you AS, then the original hive will have the flying bees and a lot of foundation to draw out, so I wouldn't give them a super just yet. Having just swarmed, they will draw fast - so be prepared to give them one in a week or two, depends on the size of the hive. One of my big colonies, when AS-ed, drew a 14x12 in a week.....

The half with the house bees will have some work to do to draw the new frames, unless they are really big at the moment, I'd leave them on the brood alone - they'll be getting smaller for the next 3 weeks.
 

MrB 

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Tom,
yes it will be foundation in the super.
If i super without the QX, could i leave it like that for a week (untill next inspection?)
 

MrB 

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Rae,
Thanks for the reply, only jelly in the q cells, no larvae so i guess no real need to do AS.
i take your point about not adding the super if i do the AS though.
so i guess if no AS then as tom says i could go for the super.
 
T

Tom Bick 

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Tom,
yes it will be foundation in the super.
If i super without the QX, could i leave it like that for a week (untill next inspection?)
If left that long they may well have drawn the middle frames and the queen probably will have laid in them.
Its my experience that the bees are sometimes reluctant to pass through a QE and by leaving it off for a couple of days it helps to get them started it is a gamble so you dont trap the queen above the QE.
If it was me and I am no expert give them the super no QE and reinspect in 3 days time including the BB for QC and then fit the QE.
If you have new QC's then its time to re think the situation.
One final point is your bees are expanding fast and its warm and a nectar flow despite the 3 extra brood frames it may be better to give them plenty of room.
 

Beezy 

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Hi,

I'm in a similar position to Mr B. I inspected my nucleus a couple of days ago and the bees have drawn out most of the frames in brood box and had started building comb up through the crown board and created some queen cups, so they obviously felt they needed more room.
I added a super and QE, and because they don't have a huge amount of stores and they have a lot of work to do to draw out foundation in the super frames, I also put some sugar solution in. Is this right? I'm not too worried about the fact that the honey might be affected as I don't expect to take any this year, but just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I had a quick look this morning just to see if they had found the syrup and there were quite a few there.

Thanks!
 

Grub 

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Hi,

I'm in a similar position to Mr B. I inspected my nucleus a couple of days ago and the bees have drawn out most of the frames in brood box and had started building comb up through the crown board and created some queen cups, so they obviously felt they needed more room.
I added a super and QE, and because they don't have a huge amount of stores and they have a lot of work to do to draw out foundation in the super frames, I also put some sugar solution in. Is this right? I'm not too worried about the fact that the honey might be affected as I don't expect to take any this year, but just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I had a quick look this morning just to see if they had found the syrup and there were quite a few there.

Thanks!
Beezy
Loads of us are about the same with new nucs , I had asked the question about feedinfg all said be careful as they will probably fill the brood box with the xtra syrup given leaving the queen with less space to lay, in the past I have just put a super on and let the bees get on with it , I always leave a dummy board in as well it just makes it easier when you have to move the first frame .
My opinion

Grub
 

Beezy 

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Hi Grub,

Thanks for your reply. So they would take the syrup down past the super frames into the brood box then? I hadn't realised they'd do that - I thought they'd just store it in the super. I'll remove the syrup tomorrow then as I don't want them to block up the brood box. Cheers!
 

MrB 

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Super has been on for 3 days without a QX, only a handfull of bee's up there, no queen in super, not started drawing comb.
BB checked, did not see Q but new eggs.
1 QC found about 1.5 cm long at bottom of frame and containing jelly. this has been removed.
there has been a little more drawing out of another frame in the BB.
Hive rebuilt with QX now fitted.
i am unsure why they are building the Q cells, but suspect it is because they were running out of room for Q to lay?

Questions.
Should i check again in another 3 days.
Should i leave it for 7 days.
Should i be thinking of doing an AS.
Any other advice?

Thanks
 

jezd 

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i am unsure why they are building the Q cells, but suspect it is because they were running out of room for Q to lay?
how can this be true as you have only just added 3 new frames, are you saying you have 8 frames of brood?

just keep up your 7 day checks, not sure why you are checking every 3 days now.

also, once its clear they are creating QC's you have to manage the situation - knocking them out is not an answer

Jez
 

MrB 

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how can this be true as you have only just added 3 new frames, are you saying you have 8 frames of brood?

just keep up your 7 day checks, not sure why you are checking every 3 days now.

also, once its clear they are creating QC's you have to manage the situation - knocking them out is not an answer

Jez
Jez,
Thanks for your reply, yes i had just added 3 new frames but they were only foundation.
i checked it after 3 days because i had put on a super without the QX and it was suggested i re check in 3 days so as not to end up with the q laying in the super.
and yes it is clear that they are creating queen cells so if this is because of my suspicion that the q was running out of room to lay, then would not knocking them down to give time for more foundation to be drawn releive the situation?
or would i be better doing an AS?
 

jezd 

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have you got the kit to AS?

are you wanting increase or reunite?

do you want to go into Winter with two colonies?

so many questions sorry :)

Jez
 

MrB 

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Update.
Checked the hive today, still nothing happening in the super (no drawing out and oly a handfull of bee's up there).
Checking the BB, things are more of a concern!
still 3 undrawn frames in BB.
No eggs
No larvae
No queen to be seen
All available space in BB full of nectar
2 sealed emergency cells
i unsealed QC on bottom of a frame
so, i guess i am queenless at present. perhaps i should have removed the 2 sealed emergency cells (when the hive is closed again it all seems clearer!) i will do this in a few days as dont want to keep disturbing them. the unsealed cell is still present and i will leave that alone.
i have placed a drawn frame into the super to encourage them up there.
My main concern now is do i have time to let them produce the new queen, let her mate and have sufficient numbers to get through the winter, or, should i be looking at getting a mated queen??

Thanks
 

Poly Hive 

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Your first post said "Also found and removed 2 or 3 play cups and a couple of queen cells containing royal jelly."

So from the start you had a colony pushed into swarm mode for lack of space. You had them dummied back to 8 frames then added another three or four was it? anyway it was too late at that point. Adding a super as they have demonstrated to you was too late and of no interest at that point.

You now seem to have lost your swarm. And or killed off the queen accidently.

Pick the better of the two cells, and exercise some patience for her to emerge and mate.

Hopefully this colony will survive the winter but this is now what you are looking at, the survival of the unit.

Sorry to be negative but that is how it reads here.

PH
 

MrB 

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Latest situation

On closer inspection i found i had 7 sealed emergency cells and 1 other queen cell looking as though it was about to be sealed (yes, larvae and jelly inside).

What i have done

Placed spare hive at side of main hive, facing other way round

Removed a frame from main hive containing 1 sealed emergency cell and capped brood.
shook off the flying bee's and put frame in spare hive with the nurse bee's. (enough to cover the brood) along with 2 frames of stores and one of foundation and closed up the hive.

in the main hive i removed all remaining emergency cells and left it with the 1 remaining queen cell that looks like its about to be sealed.

so, hopefully i have a back up queen, at the moment it is my intention to unite once i know i have a good laying queen again.

The bee's were far from happy with me doing this and i am glad i had on FULL protection including leather gloves as i took at least 7 or 8 stings to the gloves and i am sure even more on the suit that i haven't seen.

anyway, any comments??
 
Last edited:
T

Tom Bick 

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Yes given your situation I think you have done the right thing apart from perhaps shaking the one frame with the QC on it can be delicate and shaking may damage it but at least you have given yourself a chance of two queens and I think that is good.

Sit back now and watch the hive for 3 weeks then you can look inside and see what you have.

One final point on your wish list a nuc box or two as in this situation would have been better than the spare hive BB.

good look
 

Poly Hive 

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Can we just review this situation and see where it went wrong.

In fact here:#5 "only jelly in the q cells, no larvae so i guess no real need to do AS" That reads to me I saw jely but my eyesight/the light was not good enough to seet he leavae.

Post after post on this forum tells you explicitly that empty cups, and cups with eggs are of no concern.

Cups with JELLY whether dear reader you can see the larvae or not are a CLEAR STATEMENT of INTENT to SWARM. I cannot make it any clearer than that.


All you can do now is to wait.

PH
 

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