Should I be concerned?

[Turls2201]

Hi all, new beekeeping looking for advice.

Should I be worried about these larvae pictures on inspection today. Most of brood looks good and health but odd ones look strange.

Ian

 

[pargyle]

Yes, I think you should ... there is something amiss with those larvae - it's difficult to tell from a small group like that but molten larvae can be a sign of European Foul Brood ... if you dip a matchstick into the cell and pull it out does it come out stringy and gloopy ? If so ... it's a positive sign and you need to get the colony tested - and contact your SBI as it's a notifiable disease. You can buy a test kit for EFB ..

https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5122
Are there a lot of cells like this - a photo of the whole frame would help.

Whereabouts are you ? - a location in your profile would be helpful.

 

[Patrick1]

The middle cell highlighted looks like the start of a Sacbrood forming, a virus not easy to get rid of

 

[WoodenBeam]

Contact your local SBI and send them the photo, they’ll advise and if in their view you require a visit they can arrange. If you do have an issue far better to get sorted sooner rather than later.
https://nationalbeeunit.com/public/Contacts/contacts.cfm

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, I think you should ... there is something amiss with those larvae - it's difficult to tell from a small group like that but molten larvae can be a sign of European Foul Brood ... if you dip a matchstick into the cell and pull it out does it come out stringy and gloopy ? If so ... it's a positive sign and you need to get the colony tested - and contact your SBI as it's a notifiable disease. You can buy a test kit for EFB ..

https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5122
Are there a lot of cells like this - a photo of the whole frame would help.

Whereabouts are you ? - a location in your profile would be helpful.

That's AFB which this isn't
I keep lateral flow kits for both

 

[Turls2201]

Thanks all

Location Cheshire.
Most of brood look fine and healthy, it's only the odd few that are strange.
It not AFB I know, when I used a matchstick the larvae came out in one. Colour was mostly, but they did have a melted type appearance, which I know points to EFB, but I may be over reacting. Am just concerned I will have to destroy in my bees in first year...

I did think of getting a lateral flow test- where is the cheapest?

 

[pargyle]

The middle cell highlighted looks like the start of a Sacbrood forming, a virus not easy to get rid of

Yes ...

That's AFB which this isn't
I keep lateral flow kits for both

Of course ... that'll teach me to be on here, half asleep, when I should be in bed .... looking at the extra photos I think Patrick might be right ... one or two of those cells are showing signs of the early stages of sacbrood. I would still be worrying about EFB though ...

 

[Turls2201]

Think I will still get the LFT, if for nothing else, peace of mind. Is there a test for sacbrood or just experience . I think disease spotting and management is the hardest part of becoming a new beekeeper!

 

[Patrick1]

Think I will still get the LFT, if for nothing else, peace of mind. Is there a test for sacbrood or just experience . I think disease spotting and management is the hardest part of becoming a new beekeeper!

It is not that difficult, if it doesn’t look right for the sake of all beekeepers ask the SBI to take a look, they will also give you some tips and you get to watch someone who hopefully gives you some direction, good luck

 

[Erichalfbee]

It is not that difficult, if it doesn’t look right for the sake of all beekeepers ask the SBI to take a look, they will also give you some tips and you get to watch someone who hopefully gives you some direction, good luck

Spot on. Ive just had an AFB alert. Stan and I spent yesterday afternoon looking through the colonies. If I had spotted anything wrong I’d have been straight on to SBI

 

[drex]

Think I will still get the LFT, if for nothing else, peace of mind. Is there a test for sacbrood or just experience . I think disease spotting and management is the hardest part of becoming a new beekeeper!

I am an assessor for BBKA basic exam ( will I be banned now?) .
The disease and pest section is always the candidates weakest point, closely followed by swarming.

 

[Turls2201]

The disease and pest section is always the candidates weakest point, closely followed by swarming.

From my (very) limited experience so far I can understand why - lots of the symptoms look similar (certainly in pictures where subtly is lost) and lack of chance to see real disease (thankfully) in action. so for a newbie it can be difficult, even with mentors and other help. I have been lucky locally to have an apiary visit with someone doing a disease inspection but everything was fine. I sort of know what to look for, but it is all about experience!

As for the swarming - had LOTS of experience of that this year!!!!

 

[drex]

It's actually quite easy. Get to know very well what is normal. If you see anything else , it is abnormal and you can call on a more experienced beek or bee inspector to have a look.
Hopefully next year the inspectors will be running disease days. These are very valuable, as now they can bring along actual samples of foul brood etc. I urge everyone to enrol if they get the chance. I have been on two.
In my 12 years the only significant abnormal I have seen in my own bees is chalk brood. I have seen CBPV and varroosis in friends hives. Prevention is better than cure, and foul broods are mercifully relatively rare

 

[Turls2201]

" Get to know very well what is normal " - exactly - experience!!

"Hopefully next year the inspectors will be running disease days." I do hope so - you cannot beat actual hands on experience. Expect demand to be very high!

foul broods are mercifully relatively rare

Interesting question here (and not really expecting an answer) - is it genuinely rare, or do people just not recognise it or just not report it even though a legal requirement because of the fear/consequences of positive results? ( makes me sound cynical but not - just a passing thought).
Ian

 

[gmonag]

...Hopefully next year the inspectors will be running disease days. These are very valuable, as now they can bring along actual samples of foul brood etc. ...

How on earth do they do that without spreading it everywhere?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How on earth do they do that without spreading it everywhere?

strict biosecurity measures

 

[drex]

Strict aseptic procedures. JBM beat me to it. It is a very worthwhile day. Only chance you will get to see disease in the flesh, unless of course you are unfortunate .

 

[Swarm]

How on earth do they do that without spreading it everywhere?

I understand what you mean, it's quite disconcerting watching bees emerging from diseased combs.

 

[Erichalfbee]

How on earth do they do that without spreading it everywhere?

the last one I was at we had to wear plastic aprons and gloves. All the frames were dead, of course
A very worthwhile day

 

[Turls2201]

They sound really great for a new beek. Just hope I can get on one.