Should I add another brood box?

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Graeme2013

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I got 2 hives in the spring. Both Nationals and they came with extra brood boxes and supers.
One hive has around 20,000 bees and the other 5,000. Thats what the seller told me!

I've added supers on them both the larger having 2 and the smaller 1.

They have filled these with honey.

I think I might have made a mistake tho. Should I have added another brood box on the bottom before the supers? Currently both only have 1 brood box. Would it be too late to add it now and start feeding. I'm keen to make sure they have space over the winter.

I also have a large shed and I was thinking about taking the hives in over the winter is this wise?
 
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The brood nest will be contracting now. The winter cluster does not need space. It needs food and warmth...so no extra brood box.
If you are taking the honey you will need to feed but treat for varroa first.
Do not take them inside. Make sure they are treated,fed and weather proof and they should be ok.
Buy this.....
http://www.a m a z o n.co.uk/Guide-Bees-Honey-Selling-Beekeeping/dp/1904846513/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376297623&sr=8-1&keywords=hooper+bees

To make the link work take the spaces out of a m a z o n
 
:welcome:

I'm thinking you should be looking at less space to overwinter them, rather than extra space, to keep the cluster of bees as warm as possible.
Those more experienced than I will be along shortly for sound advice! :)
 
:welcome:

I'm thinking you should be looking at less space to overwinter them, rather than extra space, to keep the cluster of bees as warm as possible.
Those more experienced than I will be along shortly for sound advice! :)

From a thermal point of view the presence of a second brood box below does not change the temperature of the top exisiting brood box (in still air).(not what you would expect but it doesnt, yes i've measured it). However moving the existing brood box further away from the crown board is a BIG change to the brood in it.
 
I would not add a 2nd brood box to colonies containing 20,000 and 5,000 bees.
Especially at this time of year.
Especially in Scotland.
 
Your bees should only need one brood box for overwintering.

Keep the spare brood boxes for any splits you might need to make next year.

Your colonies will not now have the same number of bees as when you got them, they will have increased in size and will shortly be decreasing.
Read this : http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/populationdynamics.html
 
scotland winter. This space is needed for stores?

.. insulate and make sure the bees and the queen can get as close to crown as they can.
if you use one of these then the amount of space needed for food can be dramatically reduced
i.e <10kg

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I have been wintering bees on double national brood boxes for 50 years so have I been doing it wrong all this time? Strangely I lose very few colonies over winter and virtually none from starvation or even isolation starvation. Losses are usually from drone laying queens produced by supercedure in late summer.
 
I have been wintering bees on double national brood boxes for 50 years so have I been doing it wrong all this time? Strangely I lose very few colonies over winter and virtually none from starvation or even isolation starvation. Losses are usually from drone laying queens produced by supercedure in late summer.

You have been keeping bees 50 years - OP has been keeping bees since Spring.
What are you advising him to do - add a second BB, or not?
 
I got 2 hives in the spring. Both Nationals and they came with extra brood boxes and supers.
One hive has around 20,000 bees and the other 5,000. Thats what the seller told me!
...

Leaving aside any questions about believing what the seller was saying, I'd hope that by now both colonies have built up considerably!

Putting a second brood box (standard or shallow) UNDER the brood box wouldn't do any harm.
Its not clear how much good it might do at this point, though.
It would reduce the draught in the upper box from the door and wind (still air - hah!) under the open floor.

Yes think of adding insulation (and woodpecker proofing) for the winter, but the part of winter prep that is becoming due is varroa treatment -- so that the bees that will go through the winter can have the healthiest possible brood period.
 
treat for varroa and definitely brood box on top, with cover board in place put feeder on and pack with insulation ready for winter, brood too small to fill double brood, and second brood box on ready for frames in spring and no storage problems.good luck

ps put crownboard between boxes
 
Wow one question and three answers the poor guy is going to be really confused :) why would you add an empty brood box now if they have made it this far without It, what is it going to do? Fair enough if been on all the time and full of stores but surely better leaving them on the single box, varroa treatment and feed for winter?
 
I have been wintering bees on double national brood boxes for 50 years so have I been doing it wrong all this time? .

Seems very evident. Most beekeepers never learn.

But it is 300% sure, hat if a hive has now one brood and 2 super, it does not need 2 brood in winter.

The winter cluster space depends on how many brood frames the hive has fefore it stops brood rearing. If it has 8 frafes, one box is good to it. If it has 15 frames, 2 box is good.

.Brood box under wintering box is harmfull, because it is cold and moisture condensates on combs. They will be badly molded during winter.
 
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Check the Brood space for late summer

If supers are filled honey, brood frames will have honey stores too.
It is time to sheck the brood boxes and take all honey off. Then check the pollen stores too. The queen should have space to lay winter bees.

Pollen in brood box is good. One frame brood needs one frame pollen.
If you have half box pollen, hey will be bees a month later when nature stops to give pollen.

Extract honey from brood frames and do not make those "moving feeding tricks".
 
Once you have removed supers and treated (or left super on if using MAQS) if you have a strong colony take one outside frame of stores away(make sure no pollen in it) and substitute a frame of foundation in the middle of the brood nest.
They will draw it out and the queen will fill it with winter bees.
 
I have been wintering bees on double national brood boxes for 50 years so have I been doing it wrong all this time?

No, but that is simply just a bit (quite a lot, actually) more than a 14 x 12. After 50 years you should also know that it will not always make any difference to the cluster size but will mean a lot of extra stores in there for winter - and likely a lot left over in the spring. Probably means you have been harvesting some sugar syrup in most years. I like those that say 'My average crop is xyz' when really it is xyz less half the autumn feed from the previous year!

I over-winter on 14x12 and often need to remove frames of unused stores in the spring.

The point of this thread really comes down to reading on the subject, as is often the case. I would suggest a good bee book be read until the OP understands a bit about the annual ebb and flow of the honey bee colony. No extra brood is going to be needed at this point in the season normally.

Erichalfbee sorted the thread early on. The rest was either a repeat, simply muddied the waters or was downright wrong.

RAB
 

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