Set Honey, Bubbles and Cooling

[Abbee]

Hi All.

Last year I made Set Honey for the first time, a small amount of 50 oz and seed and I was really pleased.
Have now made more set honey out of 5 ltr, one week after extraction and filtering. (building up to bigger amounts once more confident)

In most of the instructions I've read, they say avoid bubbles, but no matter how careful I was there were still bubbles when jarring. However, 2 days later there seem to have gone so why the warning?

Also instructions say to cool quickly 12-14 c. So I stuck them in fridge for 18 minutes.
Question is, when they do set, can you leave them at room temperature after that or do they have to always be kept in cool place? If so, how cool a place.
Is a dark cupboard OK or is a drinks cooler worth getting?
I bought a jar of set honey from Sweden a year ago kept it out on a shelf and it is still hard and yet we've had really hot days a month ago.
Thanks all for advice

 

[Walrus]

Hi

In most of the instructions I've read, they say avoid bubbles, but no matter how careful I was there were still bubbles when jarring. However, 2 days later there seem to have gone so why the warning?

If you get lots of bubbles, when they rise to the top you get a froth which looks unsightly. Also, it's possible that bubbles may effect the crystallisation rate.

Also instructions say to cool quickly 12-14 c. So I stuck them in fridge for 18 minutes.

From what I understand you want the crystallisation process to be at a slow steady rate to get even crystal size and therefore smoother honey (smaller crystals = smoother honey). I don't think rapid cooling to 12 Deg C is needed

Question is, when they do set, can you leave them at room temperature after that or do they have to always be kept in cool place? If so, how cool a place.
Is a dark cupboard OK or is a drinks cooler worth getting?

Yes, room temp is fine for storing honey (at least in Manchester, UK)

I bought a jar of set honey from Sweden a year ago kept it out on a shelf and it is still hard and yet we've had really hot days a month ago.
Thanks all for advice

Maybe it is actually "set honey" rather than "soft set honey". If you just leave runny honey to set it tends to go rock hard (depending on honey type). You then have to warm it up until it goes runny again in order to use it.Soft set honey is soft because of the smaller crystal size caused by adding seed honey and stirring and leaving at 12 C

 

[Erichalfbee]

I heat my runny honey to 35 degrees
Stir in the seed and leave overnight in the warmer, stir again in the morning and jar. Then the jars go in the shed at the bottom of the garden.
Soft set in a week or two

 

[pargyle]

I heat my runny honey to 35 degrees
Stir in the seed and leave overnight in the warmer, stir again in the morning and jar. Then the jars go in the shed at the bottom of the garden.
Soft set in a week or two

Exactly ... works for me. You can do it for just about any quantity .. some punters prefer soft set as it doesn't run off the toast !

 

[Erichalfbee]

Exactly ... works for me. You can do it for just about any quantity .. some punters prefer soft set as it doesn't run off the toast !

And this beekeeper likes it because it doesn't crystallise and ruin its appearance

 

[Beefriendly]

I'll add in a bit more....stirring cause friction between the forming crystals that causes them to fracture and become even smaller. It's why I think commercial soft set machines work on an 15 minute stir, rest for 1 hour to allow further crystal formation and stir to let the friction reduce the crystal size...this cycle is repeated for a few days. Middle of winter simply stirring soft set at this frequency the friction causes temp to rise to around 21C.
You can see the colour change as it progresses and when it's white it's ready and smooth as butter.
It goes without saying that whatever method you use, your own soft set is smoother than butter

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'll add in a bit more....stirring cause friction between the forming crystals that causes them to fracture and become even smaller. It's why I think commercial soft set machines work on an 15 minute stir, rest for 1 hour to allow further crystal formation and stir to let the friction reduce the crystal size...this cycle is repeated for a few days.

So are you saying you can turn any crystallised honey into soft set with a machine without all the palaver of melting seeding and keeping cool?

 

[Beefriendly]

So are you saying you can turn any crystallised honey into soft set with a machine without all the palaver of melting seeding and keeping cool?

No.
I'm explaining what happens when you stir or use the potato masher type of creamers. (they shears the crystals as they pass through the holes)).
You can start with runny and seed or you can start with semi melted. We hobbyists can't start with fully set...although theoretically you could if you had a powerful enough machine. Its mainly about crystal formation and shear forces.
Temperature is not that important, ideally 14C is the fastest crystal formation temp, but crystals will form at most temps, albeit more slowly.
Who of us has a room at 14C?
Simple way of thinking about it is to compare sugar (which is crystals of sucrose) to icing sugar which is exactly the same but the crystals have now been reduced in size. You can make icing sugar by putting ordinary sugar in a blender.

 

[Erichalfbee]

No.

Phew
That's one machine I don't need, thank heavens!

 

[Abbee]

Thanks everyone. Very useful advice.
I like the resting and stir again tip too.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

ideally 14C is the fastest crystal formation temp, but crystals will form at most temps, albeit more slowly.
Who of us has a room at 14C?
.

Simples - converted fridge type warming cabinet - turn heater off, put in one or two picnic hamper type ice packs, keeps the temperature at 12 to 14 degrees for over 16 hours honey set in a couple of days

 

[Beefriendly]

Not sure why you would want to go to all that trouble when it sets fine at room temperature. Might take a few hours longer but it all sets fine.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not sure why you would want to go to all that trouble when it sets fine at room temperature. Might take a few hours longer but it all sets fine.

What 'all that trouble'? it's only a matter of taking it out of the cabinet after warming, turning the heat off then putting it back in after stirring in the seed.
Worked a treat during the June heatwave.
And we're not as mean minded down here to sit freezing in the house midwinter to save putting the heat on.

 

[Beefriendly]

and we're not as mean minded down here to sit freezing in the house midwinter to save putting the heat on.

lol...

 

[BMH]

Simples - converted fridge type warming cabinet - turn heater off, put in one or two picnic hamper type ice packs, keeps the temperature at 12 to 14 degrees for over 16 hours honey set in a couple of days

Just managed to get hold of a used undercounter fridge for free. Plan to convert it into an incubator for my queen rearing by adding temp controller, fan and Hausen heating tubes. Didnt fancy sticking them in the warming cabinet as its bit cavernous.

Thinking I might leave cooling mechanism in and rig that up to the temp controller to give a fridge that be set to 14c. Fridge will cool where required and tubes will heat. Probably be tricky to keep it constant at 14c but should manage 12-16c which should be suitable for soft set.

Any thoughts?

 

[BMH]

Just managed to get hold of a used undercounter fridge for free. Plan to convert it into an incubator for my queen rearing by adding temp controller, fan and Hausen heating tubes. Didnt fancy sticking them in the warming cabinet as its bit cavernous.

Thinking I might leave cooling mechanism in and rig that up to the temp controller to give a fridge that be set to 14c. Fridge will cool where required and tubes will heat. Probably be tricky to keep it constant at 14c but should manage 12-16c which should be suitable for soft set.

Any thoughts?

Well, I set this up yesterday with a light bulb instead of heating tube (my 2ft and 4ft clearly dont fit) and it works like a dream! Its maintaining temp of 13.8-14.2 with ease just from the cooling mechanism and a fan.

It fits 150 jars at a time and the difference in the set rate is visible after 24hrs.

 

[masterBK]

Don't know why we bother sometimes. From 7th August Lidl is selling as part of a sales promotion 454g jars of set honey for 52p . Surely needs investigation to see if it is really honey or honey mixed with high glucose/fructose syrup. Maybe Trading standards should check (if I recall correctly Tesco fell foul recently with cheap so called honey)

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don't know why we bother sometimes. From 7th August Lidl is selling as part of a sales promotion 454g jars of set honey for 52p . Surely needs investigation to see if it is really honey or honey mixed with high glucose/fructose syrup. Maybe Trading standards should check (if I recall correctly Tesco fell foul recently with cheap so called honey)

I reported a local supermarket
Trading standards took their own official sample and will be taking action. It’s worth buying a jar keeping the receipt and contacting trading standards.