running bb with runners and DN1

[Ely]

I leave them as they are and put the dummy back at the other end. Some of my bees are so sticky there is no way I can push the whole lot any way.

That's what I do

 

[enrico]

I have always used DN1 and plastic ends as I bought a load of different second hand frames and the ends made it easy to swap around but I am now slowly changing to DN4 just because it is a bit easier. I also used to clean ever frame and rewax it, as I get older I find I am using more for firelighters so it gives me a chance to make more of my kit the same as the rest

 

[Swarm]

I use a mix of standard newer DN4s and Murray frames and the empty space at the end varies in boxes by 3-4mm, not enough to put a 12th DN4 but can put a DN1 (I have an old batch which I turned into dummy boards).
Some of my newer BBs seem to have more space but I haven't spent any time measuring if the difference is with the boxes or frames. All my equipment is 2nd so this may explain differences.

I posted about this before, a batch of duff hoffman seconds that allowed twelve frames in the box plus space enough for a dummy board.

 

[Swarm]

Couple of mentions of Pete Little in this thread but as I understood his posts on the subject he used Hoffman in the broods (being a fan and maker of 1.5" spacing) and castellations in the supers.

View attachment 40759

Randy Oliver's recent National Honey Show video has some good pointers on comb/frame manipulation (as well as a dismissive comment on the castellations after being shown a few UK hives):



Edit: the screenshot of hivemaker's post could be a misuse, he may in that *specific* context have been referring to the frames he manufactured. However there are definitely other posts where he talks of using Hoffman brood spacing in his hives (I also found a post where he was praising plastic spacers for brood frames) I simply don't have time to search further at present -oddly the forum search won't let me add hivemaker to the search criteria so I had to search via Google.

My mention of Pete was from a telephone conversation where he brought the subject up when talking about imperial spacing. You are right about the imperial frames they made.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hivemaker……oddly the forum search won't let me add hivemaker to the search criteria so I had to search via Google.

You have to put in exactly as Pete created his forum name. This forum doesn’t have Google’s ability to guess what you mean and correct typos.
Hivemaker.
Note the capital H and the full stop
Hope that helps

 

[rolande]

You have to put in exactly as Pete created his forum name. This forum doesn’t have Google’s ability to guess what you mean and correct typos.
Hivemaker.
Note the capital H and the full stop
Hope that helps

I've not been using the full stop so that probably explains things although I've also been thrown by him not showing as an option in the drop down when I start to type his name

 

[pargyle]

I leave them as they are and put the dummy back at the other end. Some of my bees are so sticky there is no way I can push the whole lot any way.

Which is fine if you run with your frames cold way. I run warm way so that's not an option (or at least not a convenient option having the dummy board adjacent to the entrance).

 

[Erichalfbee]

Which is fine if you run with your frames cold way. I run warm way so that's not an option (or at least not a convenient option having the dummy board adjacent to the entrance).

Underfloor entrance with the entrance a third of the way back in most of the floors but some only a couple of inches. Mine are warm way.
Why can’t you have the dummy at the front, even in a traditional entrance?

 

[pargyle]

Underfloor entrance with the entrance a third of the way back in most of the floors but some only a couple of inches. Mine are warm way.
Why can’t you have the dummy at the front, even in a traditional entrance?

You can .. but when you inspect from the rear it's not a great start to an inspection leaning over the hive to get at the front. It just does not feel right or convenient. You are pushing frames away from you rather than moving them towards you. I tend to start my inspections a few frames in from the back of the hive as inevitably the first couple of frames in from the rear are stores .. I remove the dummy and then pry the first few frames towards me ... I can then look down into the space created - see whether there is brood there and go on with the inspection (or not). I'm not a fan of dragging every frame out and poring over them. Putting the last frame inspected back in the space and then pushing them all up together. Some of my bees are propolis fananatics but levering with the hive tool from the rear of the box will usually move them back up close.

As always in beekeeping, there is no prescriptive method of doing things and what suits you and feels right is what you should do.

 

[Erichalfbee]

As always in beekeeping, there is no prescriptive method of doing things and what suits you and feels right is what you should do.

Absolutely not. You’re right.
I’ve always managed. I dont keep bees that mind me leaning over them so I guess I’m lucky.

 

[pargyle]

Absolutely not. You’re right.
I’ve always managed. I dont keep bees that mind me leaning over them so I guess I’m lucky.

No .. MIne don't mind me leaning over ... but you are then doing things at full stretch at the start of the inspection ... not close up to you. Just feels wrong to me - like driving a left hand drive car on a British road ...

 

[jeff33]

No .. MIne don't mind me leaning over ... but you are then doing things at full stretch at the start of the inspection ... not close up to you. Just feels wrong to me - like driving a left hand drive car on a British road ...

You also tend to get the older grumpier bees on the first 2 frames towards the entrance which can set the rest off if they are twitchy.

 

[pargyle]

You also tend to get the older grumpier bees on the first 2 frames towards the entrance which can set the rest off if they are twitchy.

That's interesting - never considered that. I tried putting the dummy board at the front a couple of times, years ago, for the same reason that Dani does it ... just didn't work for me on the next inspection. I guess it's what you get used to ... but as Dani has underfloor entrances it won't apply.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

As the title says. I have always run my bb with DN4 but I often end up squashing some bees. Just wondering if anyone runs BB with DN1 and runners and what the advantages are? thanks

I've run with DN1+plastic spacers and DN4 for years sometimes with both in the same box when short of spares. which requires plastic spacers on the end DN4 It's no great problem either way and being honest I wonder why anyone would think it would be. Even the plastic spacers aren't essential if you judge spacing by eye.

 

[JamezF]

You also tend to get the older grumpier bees on the first 2 frames towards the entrance which can set the rest off if they are twitchy.

I'd have guessed that what you get more of on the frames close to the entrance is guard bees.

James

 

[jeff33]

I'd have guessed that what you get more of on the frames close to the entrance is guard bees.

James

yes, I should have used the term guard bees rather than older grmupier....althought they equally fit the bill !

 

[warsaw_hive]

I have always used DN1 and plastic ends

This might sound a silly question, but where are the plastic ends supposed to go? If you literally put them on the end then that makes handling frames more awkward. Most pictures I've seen of them have them positioned across the rails, but then that messes with your bee space as it raises up the frame by a mm or so. Most boxes don't seem to be cut to the British standard and are now designed so that the top of Hoffman frames sit ever so slightly below the rim of the box. If the plastic spacer is sitting on the rail then the top of the spacer sits above the rim of the box and the frame is at rim level.

And are you supposed to alternate how you put them on as one side is 36mm and the other is 37mm?

Am I overcomplicating this?

 

[enrico]

This might sound a silly question, but where are the plastic ends supposed to go? If you literally put them on the end then that makes handling frames more awkward. Most pictures I've seen of them have them positioned across the rails, but then that messes with your bee space as it raises up the frame by a mm or so. Most boxes don't seem to be cut to the British standard and are now designed so that the top of Hoffman frames sit ever so slightly below the rim of the box. If the plastic spacer is sitting on the rail then the top of the spacer sits above the rim of the box and the frame is at rim level.

And are you supposed to alternate how you put them on as one side is 36mm and the other is 37mm?

Am I overcomplicating this?

I have them right on the end, the bees stick them into place and I actually quite like the extra piece on the frame. It helps me handle the frames but I think I am the only one who thinks this. It also keeps them clear of the rails as the extra height does cause problems.
I have never noticed the extra mm difference. Been using them for many years with no problem. I also quite like to use the colours, I use the red ones for frames that need changing, green for frames that need noting ( for example queen cells) and yellow for general.

 

[warsaw_hive]

I have them right on the end, the bees stick them into place and I actually quite like the extra piece on the frame. It helps me handle the frames but I think I am the only one who thinks this. It also keeps them clear of the rails as the extra height does cause problems.
I have never noticed the extra mm difference. Been using them for many years with no problem. I also quite like to use the colours, I use the red ones for frames that need changing, green for frames that need noting ( for example queen cells) and yellow for general.

Okay thanks. That's how I'll use them then. They are probably better when they are stuck on.

I read somewhere that the old metal spacers were 36.5mm, which is why I measured the plastic ones. The only way I could get 36.5 was to alternate their orientation.

 

[drex]

So your bees have a micrometer? Do they care?