Rose Hive Method

[HM Honey]

Hi All. Not been on here for a while so apologies if this topic has been covered recently.

I'm thinking of trying the Rose Hive Method with one of my colonies and just wondered if anyone has or does use it and what their opinions are?

Any do's or dont's and anything in particular to look out for?

Thanks in advance for any info provided.

 

[pargyle]

Quite a long thread here:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21871&highlight=rose+hive

I was interested in the Rose method at one point but discounted it as just a 'single box' methodology, although I understand it is much more than this to those that practice it - I know there are a few people who use both Rose sizes and his ideas.

 

[HM Honey]

 

[ugcheleuce]

I'm thinking of trying the Rose Hive Method with one of my colonies and just wondered if anyone has or does use it and what their opinions are?

Were you thinking of performing the Rose Hive Method using Rose Hive boxes or using the supers from your other hives? Or, were you thinking of performing ordinary beekeeping, but using Rose Hive boxes?

If you simply want to try the Rose Hive Method, then you can do it using National honey boxes or National brood boxes. The volume of a National brood box is the same as the volume of a Rose Hive box, although the National brood box is 25 mm taller than the Rose Hive box.

 

[HM Honey]

Were you thinking of performing the Rose Hive Method using Rose Hive boxes or using the supers from your other hives? Or, were you thinking of performing ordinary beekeeping, but using Rose Hive boxes?

If you simply want to try the Rose Hive Method, then you can do it using National honey boxes or National brood boxes. The volume of a National brood box is the same as the volume of a Rose Hive box, although the National brood box is 25 mm taller than the Rose Hive box.

Thanks ugcheleuce

A m8 of mine has loaned me some rose boxes so was going to use them and try it exactly as the book dictates.

 

[FenBee]

Hello HM Honey,

I kept my bees using Rose hives for five years, with good results. You may find it useful to use 11 frames and a follower board, as I found due to tolerances, 12 frames were sometimes a bit too tight, although most of the time I did manage to use 12 frames.

Using National brood boxes for a one size box system is just too heavy, unless you are strong, as when there is a good honey flow you would find it very difficult to lift these boxes, even when using a set of steps! The idea of the Rose hive is to reduce this weight, although I found at times the boxes were also quite heavy.

Also, remember to have enough boxes to allow for artificial swarming and last but certainly not least, make sure you have good clean frames and comb for your new bees, remembering to clean the boxes, if they are not cleaned already.

Good luck!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Using National brood boxes for a one size box system is just too heavy

A standard national deep is a little over an inch deeper than the rose box.

What is the difference in weight of a cedar national deep with eleven frames full of honey, compared to the plywood Rose box with solid end wall, and twelve frames full of honey?

 

[Smokeyred]

A standard national deep is a little over an inch deeper than the rose box.

What is the difference in weight of a cedar national deep with eleven frames full of honey, compared to the plywood Rose box with solid end wall, and twelve frames full of honey?

Personally, having read a bit about beekeeping, including Roses book, though admittedly having not kept bees for a few years, i find the Rose method interesting, BUT i dont see why this method cannot be practised using National or Langstroth hives?

 

[ellypatt]

I like the idea of the Rose Hive method but haven't tried it out. A few things occurred to me after reading the book:
- the method of cycling the boxes means that old combs eventually make their way to the top and are removed with honey, which means that you will often be extracting honey from old brood comb. I've found this makes it difficult to uncap (and some people don't like the idea of it);
- you need to keep the comb suitable for brood throughout so can't space super combs;
- I thought I had a third thought but it appears to have deserted me, oh well.

The method can be used with any single sized box, but for me all national broods would be too big, and all national supers would mean a lot of frames to look at during inspections. (Maybe that was it!)

 

[Ely]

I don't understand the logic behind national broods being too big. I'd rather lift a national full of honey than a ply rose box, especially if it were poly. Are we men or mice? My nan used to lug a big sack of spuds back from the shops and she had arthritus! Man up!

 

[Michael Palmer]

I haven't read Rose's book but I've seen a youtube. I don't see any difference with his method and how I do it. Elevate the full supers over foundation. Isn't that what everyone does? Keep the bees moving up and drawing new comb? That's how I manage strong colonies without splitting them to control swarming.

One thing...he tips up the top boxes and looks under the frames for cells. I do the same here. The youtube I watched doesn't show what he does when he finds queen cells.

So how is Rose's management something new?

 

[AugustC]

There is no reason at all why you can't use national brood boxes with the rose method if you wanted to and you have enough. If you are worried about the weight, harvest the frames out of the box before lifting the box. A little bit of a faff about but better then having to buy/build a lot more boxes.

With regard to problems with uncapping because the comb containing honey is old brood comb the answer is if you are using the rose method don't uncap! the comb will be all natural comb (no foundation) which can be easily cut and strained. No expensive extractor required (see youtube for topbar honey harvests).

The main difference I noted in the rose method seemed to be the way in which new boxes are added to the middle of the brood nest instead of supered to the top. This is supposed to expand the brood nest more rapidly to build a larger colony.

 

[ugcheleuce]

I haven't read Rose's book but I've seen a youtube.

The PDF on the first page of this search result also explains it.

I don't see any difference with his method and how I do it. ... So how is Rose's management something new?

It's new because it is different from the way it is commonly done in the region where it is now new. It is new because it is different from the previous system that he used. I'm sure beekeepers elsewhere have been using it for a long time, as is the case with many beekeeping methods.

Elevate the full supers over foundation. Isn't that what everyone does?

What does "elevante full supers over foundation" mean?

No, what "everone" does in the circles that Tim Rowe moves in is to put one or more empty supers on top of the brood nest to grow the brood nest until June. And "everyone" uses two sizes of boxes, namely a single deep (in which the bees overwinter) and several shallows (some of which make up the top end of the brood box and some of which become honey boxes).

 

[sugarbush]

I haven't read Rose's book but I've seen a youtube. I don't see any difference with his method and how I do it.

If you are interested in reading the book I have a copy you can borrow. He sent me a copy a few years ago as I was discussing licensing the manufacture and sale in the USA.

I do like his boxes, the way he runs framing stock through a shaper for the ends. Technique isn't anything different from what some do here, but I think it has potential to be a fad hive here if it was ever produced.