Requeening hives failed

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whynothot

New Bee
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
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Location
Crosshands, Carmarthenshire
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
2
Three of my hives became queenless, mainly down to my fiddling.

One of the hives developed drone layers, the other two didnt. Despite several attempts to get them to raise QCs from frames of BIAS, didnt have any luck.

So on 1st August, introduced three new queens. On checking today, only one of the Qs has settled in and started laying. No sign of the other two Qs, so I suspect they have been killed off (?)

The drone laying hive, despite dumping the bees on the ground a mile away and cleaning out the hive, still has drone layers so not surprised I lost the Q. Cant see any point in trying to requeen this hive again so will just leave it die off, unless someone has a better idea.

The second hive also has no sign of the new Q. Given that I suspect the bees killed off the new Q, is there any point trying with another new Q. Or could I try combining this hive with a good hive (newspaper method) or are the bees just likely to kill off the Q in the other hive?

Or should I just leave both Q- hives die off given the time of year (not something I want to do if possible). Any point trying to introduce new Qs again?

Any advice appreciated..
 
I assume when you talk about "drone layers", you definitely mean laying workers rather than a drone laying queen?

Colonies with laying workers by definition are colonies that have been queenless for a while, don't have any young nurse bees, and are probably quite small and weak. As such, they aren't very suitable for re-queening.

The best thing to do with a laying worker colony is to combine it with a *strong* colony, either via the newspaper method or (as more commonly recommended on this forum) by shaking out the frames in front of the strong colony.
 
Sorry, yes, I meant the hive had drone laying workers.

So empty the drone laying worker hive onto the floor in front of a stronger hive. Will the bees be accepted into a stronger hive?

What about the second hive which hadn't developed drone laying workers, but still don't seem to have accepted the new Q.

Empty that onto the floor as well, or try the newspaper method?

Thanks
 
You introduced queens on 1st of August? Where did you get the queens from?What introduction method did you use? I have introduced queens to hives at this time of year and it's been weeks before signs of eggs - one of these is still in my apiary and thus far I've taken over 120 pounds of honey off her so don't write the colony off just yet. As for the laying workers - just shake them out.
 
In addition to JBM, were these virgins or laying queens?

Appears to me there were either a strong cohort of laying workers present or a non-laying queen. They are the most usual reasons for them killing introduced queens. Queen cages are better for most with few colonies. Running new queens is for the more experienced or for those with a ready supply of queens, should there be a failure.
 
The queens came from Ricky Wilson at the Cych Valley Honey Farm in Cardigan. He advertises in the Welsh Beekeepers magazine. All Qs brood tested before dispatch

Introducing them - just pushed a couple of frames apart in the middle of the nest and inserted the plastic cage they came in, fondant end down, and pushed the frames back together. I did it this way after seeing it on Youtube - was this wrong? What is the correct way of introducing a new queen in a cage?

So should I wait a bit longer to see what happens? Certainly there is no sign of any eggs or sealed brood in these hives and I couldn't see the Qs anywhere (but I am useless at seeing Qs anyway).
 
...
The drone laying hive, despite dumping the bees on the ground a mile away and cleaning out the hive, still has drone layers so not surprised I lost the Q. Cant see any point in trying to requeen this hive again so will just leave it die off, unless someone has a better idea.
...

... As for the laying workers - just shake them out.

"Shaking out" (as per JBM) means terminating the colony.
You seem to have shaken them out and allowed them to return to their hive!
Despite the myth, laying workers CAN fly. And find their way 'home'.

Because of the pseudo-queens, they don't accept a new Q (its more trouble than its worth to try any tricks).
So, remove their hive (so you don't let them go back in!), shake them out, and let them try and beg their way into other (good Q) colonies.
Cull the drone brood, and if the comb isn't too raddled, preserve it or give to needy colonies as stores frames (if there is worthwhile stores there).

A laying worker colony has no future as a colony.
Its just not died out yet. Pre-empt that and save some assets.
 
The queens came from Ricky Wilson

Introducing them - just pushed a couple of frames apart in the middle of the nest and inserted the plastic cage they came in, fondant end down, and pushed the frames back together. I did it this way after seeing it on Youtube - was this wrong? What is the correct way of introducing a new queen in a cage?
Well, you can't get much better queens, and you introdiced them properly (although i would have covered the candy plug for a few days so they don't release her too soon.

Knowing these queens, there's a good chance she's in there and may start laying before the end of the month. Just hang on a while
 
The recurring theme to this thread is the apparent 'no idea if there is actually already a queen present, or profusions of laying workers. Little wonder introductions fail if these items are not addressed before introduction -they are two prerequisites, so get them properly sorted first.
 
The recurring theme to this thread is the apparent 'no idea if there is actually already a queen present, or profusions of laying workers. Little wonder introductions fail if these items are not addressed before introduction -they are two prerequisites, so get them properly sorted first.

Too right. I think quite a few jump in with new queens without thinking about it.
I re-homed three queens this Spring to fellow BKA members and had opportunity to follow up on two. Neither were accepted owing to the presence of a previous queen. I didn't think to ask if they had made sure their hives were queen less Grrrrrrrrrrrrr
 
Guilty and sentenced to walking through stinging nettles for doing the same thing a few years ago, I picked up a swarm and 5 weeks down the road introduced a new queen only to find on next inspection eggs and a dead queen in her cage. One thing for sure I won't be doing that again without a test frame first. Being presumptuous is the downfall of many beekeepers.
 
I removed the suspected drone laying worker hive, stand, base and all to a new site and emptied all the bees out onto the floor. Carefully brushed each frame down and put in a sealed box. Completely brushed down all elements of the hive to make sure no bees remained. All the hive parts were then sealed in a box before return to the original site.

So if there was a queen, good or drone laying, it went onto the floor a long distance from the original site.

The hive was then reassembled at the original site and a new Q introduced the following day.

If nothing else it proves drone laying workers can fly - unfortunately I believed the myth that they couldn't!

The other hive has had no eggs, lavae or sealed brood in it for several weeks so I was pretty sure that it also had no queen
 
I made the mistake of believing what the book told me

To quote from Dummies Guide to Beekeeping, p185, How to deal with drone laying workers :

Most of these older foraging bees will find their way back to the hive. But the
young nurse bees, the ones that have been laying eggs, have never ventured
out of the hive before.

They will be lost in the grass where you deposited them and will never find their way back to the hive.

Now you can safely introduce your new queen
 
I made the mistake of believing what the book told me

To quote from Dummies Guide to Beekeeping, p185, How to deal with drone laying workers :

Most of these older foraging bees will find their way back to the hive. But the
young nurse bees, the ones that have been laying eggs, have never ventured
out of the hive before.

They will be lost in the grass where you deposited them and will never find their way back to the hive.

Now you can safely introduce your new queen

Should be renamed ' Beekeeping Dummies to Guide' then .... Not the best book on beekeeping I'm afraid.
 
My guess is that once you have drone laying workers there are very few nurse bees in a hive with a small colony. The nurse bees mature more quickly when the brood nest dwindles, for lack of a queen, and a greater proportion of the colony is required to forage.
 
I have never tried it but you could shake the bees away from the apiary and swap hive positions with a queen right hive and requeen the other one.
 
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