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ludmilah2005 

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Hey can anyone help me ? Im looking to source localy a raw honey. I use honey every day in my tea and looking to buy real unpasterised honey.I live in Largs and I don't want to buy it from internet. Please let me know if anyone can recommend someone or market or directly from beekeeper.thank you very much for any reply..
 

gavin 

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Just stopping by from the Scottish forum ....

Google: 'graeme sharpe honey' and you'll find a guy who sells at local farmers markets. He's also Scotland's beekeeping adviser.

Alternatively you should find someone in the Ayr and District Beekeepers.

cheers

Gavin
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Hey can anyone help me ? Im looking to source localy a raw honey. I use honey every day in my tea and looking to buy real unpasterised honey.I live in Largs and I don't want to buy it from internet. Please let me know if anyone can recommend someone or market or directly from beekeeper.thank you very much for any reply..
Any honey from any beekeeper will be unpasteurised,beekeepers extract their honey using a mechanical extractor, filter it with the aid of gravity to remove bits of debris/bees and the like. It's sometimes heated up slightly (to beehive temperature) to aid in bottling, and that's it. It's ony the rubbish you buy off supermarket shelves you have to be careful of - the pasteurisation/raw honey myth is just a nonsense dreamt up by people trying to charge double for their (often poor quality) 'natural' product - they fool some people! :)
 

itma 

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Any honey from any beekeeper will be unpasteurised,beekeepers extract their honey using a mechanical extractor, filter it with the aid of gravity to remove bits of debris/bees and the like. It's sometimes heated up slightly (to beehive temperature) to aid in bottling, and that's it. It's ony the rubbish you buy off supermarket shelves you have to be careful of - the pasteurisation/raw honey myth is just a nonsense dreamt up by people trying to charge double for their (often poor quality) 'natural' product - they fool some people! :)
Emyr, while I agree with you in principle and in spirit, it should be noted that the BBKA are quite encouraging towards amateur beekeeper honey pasteurisation - jarred honey heated to 60C for 45/60 minutes, then fast cooled - though they do occasionally claim that this is to improve the non-granulating shelf life.
The National Honey Show guidance is even more extreme!

Certainly, hobby beekeepers should never be heating their honey hotter than this - commercially pasteurisation seems to be done by 45 seconds at 75C, passing a pipe through a hot water bath.


Personally, I consider "Raw Honey" to be a perfectly reasonable description of honey which, exactly as JBM describes, has never been heated higher than hive maximum temperature, about 33C, exactly like my own honey.

If one buys honey DIRECT from the beekeeper, face-to-face, one can chat about exactly what processing the product has, or has not been given.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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it should be noted that the BBKA are quite encouraging towards amateur beekeeper honey pasteurisation - jarred honey heated to 60C for 45/60 minutes, then fast cooled - though they do occasionally claim that this is to improve the non-granulating shelf life.
Well, I must say that I've never heard that tripe bandied around. If this is the case it shows just how unfit for purpose and out of touch the BBKA and the 'National' (If you consider the home counties to be a nation) honey show is
 

pargyle 

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Well, I must say that I've never heard that tripe bandied around. If this is the case it shows just how unfit for purpose and out of touch the BBKA and the 'National' (If you consider the home counties to be a nation) honey show is
Whenever I hear the word 'Pasteurised' it makes me think of Benny Hill and 'Ernie'.

"I says would you like it pasteurised 'cos pasteurised is best .. and she says Enie I'll be happy if it comes up to me chest !"
 

itma 

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Well, I must say that I've never heard that tripe bandied around. If this is the case....
Module 2 Study Notes
- Yates 63C for 30 minutes
- Mid Bucks 60C for 60 minutes
to kill yeasts and thereby prevent fermentation

Module 2 specimen marking scheme
Q17 (a) Describe how to prepare liquid honey for sale in a shop starting from a 15kg tub of unfiltered granulated honey.
... run into jars then lid
re-warm in water bath (even temperature distribution and heat conduction quicker through water than air for 1 hour at 60 - 62°C 140 - 145°F to melt remaining crystals to give ‘shelf life’
http://www.b b k a .org.uk/files/library/01-08-2011;_how_the_modules_are_set_and_marked_1312191352.pdf
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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All of the honey I've seen in the supermarkets here - I checked in shoprite and pick and pay today. all South African imports, and all 'Pasteurate'. I tasted some last week - not impressed
 

pargyle 

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All of the honey I've seen in the supermarkets here - I checked in shoprite and pick and pay today. all South African imports, and all 'Pasteurate'. I tasted some last week - not impressed
It was mis spelled ... Past your date !
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Module 2 Study Notes
- Yates 63C for 30 minutes
- Mid Bucks 60C for 60 minutes
to kill yeasts and thereby prevent fermentation

Module 2 specimen marking scheme http://www.b b k a .org.uk/files/library/01-08-2011;_how_the_modules_are_set_and_marked_1312191352.pdf
That's another reason for people not to take the modules then
 

Jimmy 

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Module 2 Study Notes
- Yates 63C for 30 minutes
- Mid Bucks 60C for 60 minutes
to kill yeasts and thereby prevent fermentation

Module 2 specimen marking scheme http://www.b b k a .org.uk/files/library/01-08-2011;_how_the_modules_are_set_and_marked_1312191352.pdf
Just to add more confusion, the 'selling honey' pdf leaflet from Dec 2011 agrees with Yates:

The honey shall not have been heated in such a way as to
significantly destroy enzymes and drive off the volatile
aromatic compounds which give each type of honey its
unique quality.
If honey is warmed for extraction and bottling it is advisable
to keep the temperature below 35°C and to cool quickly.
For pasteurisation a temperature of 63°C is needed for 30
minutes followed by rapid cooling. Honey is best preserved
by storing at a constantly cool temperature, preferably 12°C
or lower.


I used to attempt pasteurisation but due to the nature of my honey it never stayed clear for long so now I produce soft set only. Far more consistent product possible with less heating/faffing, IMHO. If I want a runny honey for porridge etc then I heat up individual jars.
 

REDWOOD 

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Shocking news, by all means sterilise your equipment and jars but messing with honey is a no no for me, if one is concerned about yeast then test your batch
 

itma 

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Just to add more confusion, the 'selling honey' pdf leaflet from Dec 2011 agrees with Yates:
...
Jimmy, there's no confusion about the temperature - 60 for 60 minutes and 63 for 30 minutes are pretty much equivalent (and to 75 for about 45 seconds).

The only slight confusion is that some would do this to kill yeasts, while others would do the exact same thing with the intention of resisting granulation.
FWIW - much of the resistance to granulation would be given by the crash cooling, preserving the supersaturated solution.


But the detail is a side issue - some folks DO heat above hive temperature, thus pasteurising.
Accordingly, I think it is perfectly reasonable for those of us, like JBM and myself, that don't to market our honey as "Un-pasteurised" or "Raw".

However, I don't expect to reach the absurd pricing levels for "Raw Honey" that JBM was so offended by on his (possibly his only :p ) trip to London.
 

Mr C 

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Shocking news, by all means sterilise your equipment and jars but messing with honey is a no no for me, if one is concerned about yeast then test your batch
How do you test for yeast ?
 
T

Tom Bick 

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How do you test for yeast ?
Add some water that may do it :eek:

Out of interest has anyone ever tested cheap bought honey (perish the thought) for the MC content as it would follow kill the yeast and you can getaway with......:reddevil:
 

farbee 

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Jimmy, there's no confusion about the temperature - 60 for 60 minutes and 63 for 30 minutes are pretty much equivalent (and to 75 for about 45 seconds). QUOTE]

On what basis are you referring to these being equivalent?
 

Mr C 

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Add some water that may do it :eek:

Out of interest has anyone ever tested cheap bought honey (perish the thought) for the MC content as it would follow kill the yeast and you can getaway with......:reddevil:
Thanks now I know add water and make mead:winner1st:
 

itma 

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QUOTE=itma;401243]Jimmy, there's no confusion about the temperature - 60 for 60 minutes and 63 for 30 minutes are pretty much equivalent (and to 75 for about 45 seconds). QUOTE]

On what basis are you referring to these being equivalent?
FFS, you have previously, while nitpicking my contributions, claimed to be a scientist!

Note that I referred to them being "pretty much equivalent" specifically to try and deflect obfuscating pedantry. Your misquote is enough for me to no longer put off updating my Ignore list.

You should try having a read of the Wikipedia entry on Pateurisation/Process and /Efficiency.
Note that the interest, with honey, is in reducing the live yeast population.
The HTST pasteurization standard was designed to achieve a five-log reduction, killing 99.999% of the number of viable micro-organisms in milk.[26] This is considered adequate for destroying almost all yeasts, molds, and common spoilage bacteria ...
The two main types of pasteurization used today are high-temperature, short-time (HTST, also known as "flash") and extended shelf life (ESL). Ultra-high temperature processing (UHT, also known as ultra-heat-treating) is also used for milk treatment. In the HTST process, milk is forced between metal plates or through pipes heated on the outside by hot water, and is heated to 72°C (161°F) for 15 seconds ... A less conventional, but US FDA-legal, alternative (typically for home pasteurization) is to heat milk at 145 °F (63 °C) for 30 minutes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization#Process with further references
 

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