Questions after OA treatment

[Salamagundy]

I'd be very grateful for any comments on the following:

I dribbled (bought...) OA on my hives on Wednesday, temp. about 8 degrees. Some bees on most frames although most were clumped together in the middle. I assume this isn't a textbook cluster, but with no cold weather forecast I decided it was best to get it done now.

The number of bees seems to have changed quite dramatically since I last removed the crownboards at the end of September. The two strongest hives then (with this year's queens) now seem to be the two weakest. The two hives with last year's queens, which had not even drawn all their comb in September now look to be the strongest. Can anybody enlighten me about what's likely to have been going on?

The outermost frames still had some stores (mainly bottom of frames empty, tops still with stores) but I didn't want to disturb the bees too much so didn't check other frames. Is there a predictable pattern to the way the colony consumes stores?

As I don't trust my ability to estimate weight through hefting I bought a spring balance to check. Readings before Christmas on just lifting the back of the brood box off the stand with roof and insulation removed (i.e. OMF, standard brood box, crown board, 500g or less of fondant, 11 frames) were between 12kg and 14kg. Is this ok for this time of year? I've had fondant on since the middle of November. Should I have saved the money...?

Mite drop so far (Thurs/Fri):

1 (all frames had bees on) - 2/18
2 (6 - 7 frames of bees) - 0/7
3 (5 - 6 frames of bees) - 0/6
4 (all frames had bees on) - 5/25

Many thanks in advance for your comments.

 

[gavin]

As regards the apparent change in bee strength, three possibilities.

1) They're only fooling you. Colonies with lots of stores on the frames they are occupying will be low down on the frames and you might not see them easily. Those that have used up much of the stores will be up at the top bars and appear to be more numerous.

2) There can be a lot of drifting over the winter. Good queens attract bees and the ones with a serious problem get weaker due to bees jumping ship.

3) Colonies that didn't have much late brood raising will have predominantly older bees that die off early. Same goes for bees with a health problem (Varroa, acarine, Nosema, etc), workers die early.

I'd vote for no. 1 in this case. Are the two with last year's queens lighter than the others?

Can't answer the weighing question - it would be sensible to lift the hive at two opposite points and add the weights.

You *bought* oxalic solution?!

hope that helps

Gavin

 

[Salamagundy]

Thanks Gavin - a definite help!

I'd vote for no. 1 in this case. Are the two with last year's queens lighter than the others?

Yes - 12kg (x2?) vs 14kg (x2) and these were also the two hives that took the least syrup in the Autumn. They're also making their way through the fondant much quicker than the other two hives....

Can't answer the weighing question - it would be sensible to lift the hive at two opposite points and add the weights.

I did weigh on both sides - no difference, so combined figures would be 24kg - 28kg.

You *bought* oxalic solution?!

I know. Won't do it again next year....

 

[Finman]

.
You see the mite results after two weeks.

 

[Salamagundy]

.
You see the mite results after two weeks.

Thanks Finman. I'll check the drop daily as the hives are nearby and compare the numbers with the percentages you quoted in another thread and those on the Dave Cushman site to see if my hives follow the same curve, although I'm not sure that will give me any idea of how successful my treatment has been....

 

[Finman]

.
When researcher give trickling, they often give Perizin trickling to valuate, how much was alive after oxalic acid. ok. You make your own home science.

last spring I gove a spring trickling. I was surpised that there was tens of mites after winter treatment. By acccident I turned an empty frame and about 150 dead mites dropped from comb. Then I realized that mites had died in winter and dropped to empty cells. Bees clean them during Sprig when they enlarge the cluster. So, it is not so easy to count mites.

 

[Salamagundy]

Thanks Finman

You make your own home science.

I fear whatever I do, it won't be very scientific....

So, it is not so easy to count mites.

Point taken!

 

[Poly Hive]

If it helps some of mine surprised me yesterday as they were very low on the combs, and several had me wondering if they were alive at all, but then when I looked down vertically there they were.

Relax it is all out of your hands for the next few weeks.

What will be will be.

PH

 

[Salamagundy]

Thanks for the reassurance and advice, PH.

If it helps some of mine surprised me yesterday as they were very low on the combs, and several had me wondering if they were alive at all, but then when I looked down vertically there they were.

I'm pretty sure (and hope) that Gavin's favoured explanation will be right: in the two hives I thought were emptier I could see the open mesh floor between the outer frames but I probably didn't check the other two hives carefully enough, thinking, wrongly, they were much fuller, as the bees were almost boiling over the top of the frames. A lesson learned....

I'll make sure they all have plenty of fondant.

 

[MJBee]

Looking at my records I had a National with OMF, single brood crown board and roof that was 20.6kg on 31 Dec 2010. It was given 2.5kg of fondant and came through the winter just fine. So you 24 - 28kg without a roof should be OK.

 

[Salamagundy]

Looking at my records I had a National with OMF, single brood crown board and roof that was 20.6kg on 31 Dec 2010. It was given 2.5kg of fondant and came through the winter just fine. So you 24 - 28kg without a roof should be OK.

That's good to know, MJBee - thanks!

The forum has been a very enjoyable and entertaining way of widening my knowledge and pointing out pitfalls I'm likely to make.

Now I'm wondering whether space for the queens to lay will be an issue if I've been feeding fondant since November.

Thanks in advance for any advice on how to deal with this. I'd rather not watch them disappearing down the track and off into the distance....

 

[alexander]

Now I'm wondering whether space for the queens to lay will be an issue if I've been feeding fondant since November.

Thanks in advance for any advice on how to deal with this. I'd rather not watch them disappearing down the track and off into the distance....

Its these things, that being a `newbee` (me) you dont always pick up from books or beginners lessons, but are so important. Places like this are vital!

 

[Salamagundy]

Its these things, that being a `newbee` (me) you dont always pick up from books or beginners lessons, but are so important. Places like this are vital!

I think that's really true, Alexander. The course I did and my mentor were/are excellent but I have learnt so much by visiting the forum regularly and I'm grateful that more experienced beeks are so supportive and ready to share their knowledge and expertise.