questionable teaching or not?

[PeaBee]

Not sure why people equate non-prolific with easy to manage. Some of the easiest bees to manage that I have either kept myself or worked commercially have been the most prolific. They have have been placid, non-swarmy and build up in response to the environment/flow,. On the flip side some of the worst bees I have come across have been non-prolific, moody, swarmed when the brood box is half full and generally hard to predict. I know which I would recommend to a beginner.
I also don't get why some people get fixated on being single box, double brood etc. Bees are dynamic and build up and contract in response to whats going on around them. I have colonies at the moment with brood in 3 boxes, they will contract going into the autumn and overwinter on single boxes. Working 2 or 3 boxes of a nice placid, predictable colony is quicker than dealing with a single box of grumpy, unpredictable bees that seem to be swarming/superseding or doing somthing else other making honey.

 

[Robinredcar]

OK... Give it a rest you two ...it's not going anywhere.

I just responded

 

[Robinredcar]

Come on according to you grandad did keep bees on single boxes so we should continue….I really don’t understand the fascination with boxes…..it’s a bloody box use as many or few as the bees require

Not my grandad lol.
It's important to me, the more prolific the bees the more I have to spend per colony and the more faffing on with extra brood boxs and I'm guessing it's probably the same reason they culled the queen.

 

[Robinredcar]

......maybe it was too prolific?

Lol no I think it was more they sold out to foreign company's then can't compete with their low labour prices

 

[Robinredcar]

Not sure why people equate non-prolific with easy to manage. Some of the easiest bees to manage that I have either kept myself or worked commercially have been the most prolific. They have have been placid, non-swarmy and build up in response to the environment/flow,. On the flip side some of the worst bees I have come across have been non-prolific, moody, swarmed when the brood box is half full and generally hard to predict. I know which I would recommend to a beginner.
I also don't get why some people get fixated on being single box, double brood etc. Bees are dynamic and build up and contract in response to whats going on around them. I have colonies at the moment with brood in 3 boxes, they will contract going into the autumn and overwinter on single boxes. Working 2 or 3 boxes of a nice placid, predictable colony is quicker than dealing with a single box of grumpy, unpredictable bees that seem to be swarming/superseding or doing somthing else other making honey.

For me I don't like having to move brood boxs that possibly contain the queen, plus the extra expense of having more brood boxs.
I havnt as much experience as you by the sounds of it but the bees I've seen other people handle on single brood boxs seemed very placid and calm.

 

[drex]

I cannot believe that temperament is solely related to box size. It is multifactorial. I run single and double broods, according to what my bees dictate, and have not noticed a correlation. I do know that, since doing my own queen rearing, and culling those with undesirable traits, my bees have become a lot easier to manage. When I think back to my early days I had some horrid bees, but I knew no better then

 

[madasafish]

I keep bees in Langstroth jumbo hives.
I NEVER have to move them during the season.
In Spring I often see boxes with BIAS on every frame.

And yet in my experience the bees I keep - as a result of deliberate culling- are quiet ,non runny and non aggressive.
Any suggestion that there is a direct correlation between size and temper is false and represents too small a sample size .

 

[B_north]

For me I don't like having to move brood boxs that possibly contain the queen, plus the extra expense of having more brood boxs.
I havnt as much experience as you by the sounds of it but the bees I've seen other people handle on single brood boxs seemed very placid and calm.

From the university of Guelph, I too cannot unstack those tall stacks of boxes and taking out frame by frame to make a box easier to lift is a pain. I don't run langs anymore for that reason.

 

[Robinredcar]

From the university of Guelph, I too cannot unstack those tall stacks of boxes and taking out frame by frame to make a box easier to lift is a pain. I don't run langs anymore for that reason.

It was more having to buy extra brood boxs and the risk of loosing the queen when getying through them, mine are on a brood and a half but the bees I was lucky enough to get are so nice and calm its worth the trade off of multiple brood boxs. I was thinking of going to langstroth or using a commercial brood box woth the national gear I already have eventually just can't decide which haha. I used a brood as a super last year and it was quite heavy when it wasn't even full.

 

[Swarm]

It was more having to buy extra brood boxs and the risk of loosing the queen when getying through them, mine are on a brood and a half but the bees I was lucky enough to get are so nice and calm its worth the trade off of multiple brood boxs. I was thinking of going to langstroth or using a commercial brood box woth the national gear I already have eventually just can't decide which haha. I used a brood as a super last year and it was quite heavy when it wasn't even full.

A Commercial box would be my choice if I was looking for single brood box management. I'm quite happy with running one size of brood box and allowing the queen what she needs by using double boxes and dummying them to her requirements. My bees are all Amm/Native and they vary quite a bit, brooded frames ranging from ten to eighteen but rarely more than that. There are so many bees in one particular single box, an Amm daughter, that I've been twitching all season, three deep on the combs and they do not move, gorgeous bees . By comparison, another Amm daughter laid up sixteen frames before being split to a nuc where she has laid up twelve, I added a third box and gave her daughter in the main hive more space, so twenty frames in there now. All of them are stacked with supers regardless of brood size.
I can understand the rationale of single brood but it's always something, whether supers or broods, you need enough to cover eventualities, nothing wrong with brood and a half if it suits you, I just find same size brood frames more convenient. Certainly no more chance of killing the queen than pushing frames together, I only look in the top box unless I find cells so with dummied boxes I find inspections are quicker. Even a less prolific queen will need space to lay, so combs in a single box need to be 'functional' or the space is smaller still.

Nice to hear you've acquired a lovely colony, feel free to drop a post about them in my blog

 

[Robinredcar]

A Commercial box would be my choice if I was looking for single brood box management. I'm quite happy with running one size of brood box and allowing the queen what she needs by using double boxes and dummying them to her requirements. My bees are all Amm/Native and they vary quite a bit, brooded frames ranging from ten to eighteen but rarely more than that. There are so many bees in one particular single box, an Amm daughter, that I've been twitching all season, three deep on the combs and they do not move, gorgeous bees . By comparison, another Amm daughter laid up sixteen frames before being split to a nuc where she has laid up twelve, I added a third box and gave her daughter in the main hive more space, so twenty frames in there now. All of them are stacked with supers regardless of brood size.
I can understand the rationale of single brood but it's always something, whether supers or broods, you need enough to cover eventualities, nothing wrong with brood and a half if it suits you, I just find same size brood frames more convenient. Certainly no more chance of killing the queen than pushing frames together, I only look in the top box unless I find cells so with dummied boxes I find inspections are quicker. Even a less prolific queen will need space to lay, so combs in a single box need to be 'functional' or the space is smaller still.

Nice to hear you've acquired a lovely colony, feel free to drop a post about them in my blog

That's great to hear I do love to hear about amm/near native bees that's the reason I got bees.
The only things that put me off commercial is the little lugs and expensive boxs, plus I've got polly national nucs so they would need changing.
I wonder how your prolific queen goes with longevity, I thought they might burn out when very prolific?
It's the moving the top brood box and potentially loosing the queen that I don't like with more than one box to.

That would be great I'll get a vid or pics of them the next inspection for you, I'll have a look through your blog if you don't mind.

 

[Ian123]

It was more having to buy extra brood boxs and the risk of loosing the queen when getying through them

So in fact nothing to do with what the bees require in any way shape or form. Also earlier you said they produce the same amount of honey. So how do they squeeze that in fewer boxes.

 

[Robinredcar]

So in fact nothing to do with what the bees require in any way shape or form. Also earlier you said they produce the same amount of honey. So how do they squeeze that in fewer boxes.

Ofcorse its what the bees need, the BKA this post is about obviosly likes to keep bees that dont require more than one brood box. Instead of cherry picking read everything....... my new bees will most likley be on brood and a half when they build up as the very experienced bee keeper I got them from recomened they should.
I can see the benefit of only having one brood box, again if you read it all and not cherry pick I've stated I'm thinking of going to commercial or langstroth so the bees have more room and still be on just one brood box because I'd prefer that over brood and a half .

 

[Ian123]

Ofcorse its what the bees need, the BKA this post is about obviosly likes to keep bees that dont require more than one brood box. Instead of cherry picking read everything....... my new bees will most likley be on brood and a half when they build up as the very experienced bee keeper I got them from recomened they should.
I can see the benefit of only having one brood box, again if you read it all and not cherry pick I've stated I'm thinking of going to commercial or langstroth so the bees have more room and still be on just one brood box because I'd prefer that over brood and a half .

Can I ask do you actually have bees?

 

[Robinredcar]

Can I ask do you actually have bees?

Yes I do, also stated that further up lol.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I can see the benefit of only having one brood box,

Then go for Langs. I would in hindsight.
I lasted one season in nationals then eked them all out to 14x12

the BKA this post is about obviosly likes to keep bees that dont require more than one brood box.

No it's not. It's about keeping bees in ONE NATIONAL

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No it's not. It's about keeping bees in ONE NATIONAL

no it's not - it's about culling productive bees in favour of mediocre ones

 

[Robinredcar]

Then go for Langs. I would in hindsight.
I lasted one season in nationals then eked them all out to 14x12

No it's not. It's about keeping bees in ONE NATIONAL

Yea I wasn't over keen on 14x14, do like the look of long lugs but extracting seems to be a nightmare if your using as a super to draw comb?
I've already bought 3 new full natinoal hives, extra suppers for them all and nuc boxs that's why I was tempted to go commercial over langstroth still can't decide .

Sorry that's what I meant, the whole post was about single national brood and again I can see why they would stick to that for quite afew reasons, I to would love my bees to be less prolific and keep them on single natinoal brood but they are not and the very experienced beekeeper my new colony came from keeps all his on atleast brood and a half if I rememeber rightly and to me they are such good bees to handle and work with the trade off for them being a little more prolific than I'd like is well worth it.
The apiary in the post may have excellent none prolific bees and therfore cull prolific, even at lovley natured colonies because they simply don't need them.

 

[Robinredcar]

no it's not - it's about culling productive bees in favour of mediocre ones

What makes you think they are mediocre?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

What makes you think they are mediocre?

I'm getting a feeling this is a circular argument.