Question on Nucleus method of swarm control

[Erichalfbee]

Pagden......The main reason for the poor results is because the artificial swarm created is nothing like a prime natural swarm and won't fool the bees. A natural prime swarm contains 70% young bees whereas the AS contains a queen with mainly old flying bees who often will build more QCs.

Has anybody tried a Taranov?

 

[North End Bees]

I've read Wally Shaw's papers & found them very interesting and clear, he has a couple of zoom talks coming up

Yes two in April, hopefully timely enough for most beginners.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/pre-...with-wally-shaw-tickets-136013711673?aff=eand
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/reactive-swarm-control-with-wally-shaw-tickets-136449685683?aff=eand
Wally does explain the reasoning behind his practice, and he's written several useful little books.

But still bear in mind that his opinions are exactly that: his own opinions.

 

[gmonag]

You should read Wally's excellent pamphlets on swarm control. The article is an abstract from them.
https://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/webAn-Apiary-Guide-to-Swarm-Control-2nd-edition.pdf

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

@david230757 A method of reducing cells I've found works well & reduces the risk of missing any smaller emergency cells later, is when you remove the queen, go through the 'parent' box and just take down SEALED cells, leaving all OPEN cells. Mark the frames with open cells and take a picture of the frame with the one you'd like to keep - well provisioned with food, nice larva. By leaving all the open cells the bees are LESS LIKELY to make loads of emergency cells. Presumably the pheromones given off by the sealed cells must indicate to the bees they don't need to make loads more, as they have plenty in the 'bank'. This means when you go back in about 7 days, before any queens emerge, there is a lower likelihood of emergency cells built in the meantime. Also all the open ones will have been fed well, which is what you want to make a good queen. Emergency cells are a lot easier to miss than swarm cells, especially if you're a relative beginner, as they are smaller and can be numerous. You can then just go through the frames and remove all the sealed ones except the one you liked and took a photo of, to check it's position on the frame.

yeah, right

 

[BugsInABox]

Then Nuc swarmed (or absconded is more correct I suppose).

They are two entirely different happenings.

IMO, far better to follow the Pagden route and re-unite later if no increase is desired.

Which was it?

 

[North End Bees]

Which was it?

Well, if they all went then that's absconding.

 

[BugsInABox]

Indeed

 

[Finman]

It is essential to use foundations with artificial swarms. My experience is that if I use ready combs, the swarm part with queen continues swarming fever and begins queen cell rearing.

The AS starts to draw fundatipnd anf it id a sign that swarming fever is ober. The queen starts to lay after 3 days.

 

[Finman]

Has anybody tried a Taranov?

Taranov is only a board, via which a swarm walks into the hive. You may use twigs too instead of board.

As well you may drop the swarm onto ground in front of the hive and bees go inside.

When you catch a swarm, you cannot make science from it.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Nuc method works perfectly well BUT you only leave 1 cell, open or sealed it matters not.
You have to shake all the bees off the frames to find all the cells, miss one and you've ballsed it up.
Only merit to leaving an open cell is more time to get back and remove other cells.

 

[Repwoc]

Only merit to leaving an open cell is more time to get back and remove other cells.

And you can see that it has a lava in it.

 

[david230757]

Nuc method works perfectly well BUT you only leave 1 cell, open or sealed it matters not.
You have to shake all the bees off the frames to find all the cells, miss one and you've ballsed it up.
Only merit to leaving an open cell is more time to get back and remove other cells.

and what happens if you leave a sealed QC from which a queen emerges and they've started others QCs from eggs/larvae?

 

[Nige.Coll]

and what happens if you leave a sealed QC from which a queen emerges and they've started others QCs from eggs/larvae?

They're up a tree.

 

[Nige.Coll]

And you can see that it has a lava in it.

It's very very rare bees take the trouble to cap an empty cell during swarm season.
I can't see through brood or honey cappings either.

 

[Repwoc]

I can't see through brood or honey cappings either.

True, but there are a lot more than one of those. The one QC is critical.

 

[GuyNir]

I thought the idea of leaving an open cell is to ensure it’s viable, containing properly fed larva.

 

[Finman]

Nuc method works perfectly well BUT you

In what meaning perfectly?

When you take off the laying queen, it does not make the big hive nuckleus.

As well a clipped queen dies into the lawn during swarming and it dors not make the happening nucleus.

I read AS method from British Bee Keeping Book 45 years ago. And it works well.

 

[Antipodes]

Has anybody tried a Taranov?

I did once. A bit of fun. I lifted the board carefully and the "swarm" stayed clumped.

 

[Firefly]

Last year I used nuc method on a very strong colony - as per the descriptions here. I went in six days after removing the queen and took down (meticulously!) all the QCs but the one I wanted, shut them up and left them to it. Ten days later, I was in the apiary when they swarmed! 'D**n', I thought, 'missed one'. But I hadn't. When I went in, the hive was full of rather weedy-looking emergency QCs, plus one emerged one, of course. Lesson learned: go back seven days later and take down all the QCs but the one you want; any earlier and you still risk a cast swarm (because they can make emergency QCs from 3-day-old larvae)

The coda to this story is that I caught the swarm, dumped them rather inelegantly into a nuc and stood back to make sure they were settled. They were not: they left again within minutes, flew straight back to the parent hive (including the new Q) and went inside. 7 days later she was laying

All this happened between 19 Apr and 25 May, and I took 70lb of honey from that colony during the same period. I did actually get a queen from one of the emergency QCs laying, but she was useless

 

[Nige.Coll]

Last year I used nuc method on a very strong colony - as per the descriptions here. I went in six days after removing the queen and took down (meticulously!) all the QCs but the one I wanted,

What's the rush they ain't going anywhere until the first queen emerges.
What had happened to the queen cell you left ?
It fits in well with the 7 day inspection plan which is why I like it and it doesn't impact the honey crop too much.