Question about genetic strengths

[Julie in Ash]

I have today visited my friend who rents a small farm cottage. She is surrounded on 3 sides by very old farm buildings - probably from the 1700s - which are Grade 1 listed. It's wild Beehive central! 10 feet from my friend's front door is a small grain store or barn. I counted 3 separate colonies using different access point around the building. Several hundred Bees were bearding on the entrance point of what I think is the main colony. There is no chance whatsoever of opening that barn and removing or inspecting the hive as it's a protected building.

There's also a hive in my friend's chimney top, and at least one other in a neighbouring Oast. The house across the road had them too but pest controllers gassed them and sealed up the chimney around 10 years back I am told. I must have seen thousands of Bees buzzing in and out of hives and at least 5 colonies all within vision of my friend's front door. I suspect there's more colonies out of sight in other buildings there.

These Bees are so calm it's unreal. I stood within 6 feet of the hive entrance and not one Bee could be bothered to come take a look at me. I guess as it's a busy working farm yard they are used to much comings and goings.

My plan is in the Spring I am going to try trap a swarm. There's been swarms in my friend's garden before and the local Association comes to get them. (Not my Association). With so many colonies around I fancy my chances of catching one. I'd like to work with these Bees as they seem so calm and they interest me. They are survivors I suspect.

Here's my question.... longer term farm workers claim this barn next to my friend's cottage has been packed with Bees for 40 years, maybe even much longer than that. Constant activity for decades. The farmer doesn't mind but doesn't bother about them either as he's a Sheep and Cattle farmer. Bees are no good to him. Nor has he sprayed anything as no need.

Could these Bees have developed stronger genes to resist certain viruses and diseases as they appear so strong and prolific? This is less than 10 miles from the city centre and there's at least one Beekeeper a couple of miles up the road. They aren't an isolated sub-strain I don't think as drones from other colonies would mingle there. But I suspect they have developed stronger genes over the years. Is this a reasonable hunch?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Could these Bees have developed stronger genes to resist certain viruses and diseases as they appear so strong and prolific? This is less than 10 miles from the city centre and there's at least one Beekeeper a couple of miles up the road. They aren't an isolated sub-strain I don't think as drones from other colonies would mingle there. But I suspect they have developed stronger genes over the years. Is this a reasonable hunch?

Yes they could but equally the cavity may just be repopulated by swarms as the colony dies out every three years or so.
There is a research paper by Catherine Thompson who did a survey on “ wild bee” nests in the UK and her conclusion was that most had similar genetics to the bees kept by the local beekeepers and it was most likely that these nests originated from kept colonies.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Here
http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/5211/

The Health and Status of the Feral Honeybee

 

[Julie in Ash]

Yes they could but equally the cavity may just be repopulated by swarms as the colony dies out every three years or so.
There is a research paper by Catherine Thompson who did a survey on “ wild bee” nests in the UK and her conclusion was that most had similar genetics to the bees kept by the local beekeepers and it was most likely that these nests originated from kept colonies.

That's interesting. It does make sense, as I said, this isn't an isolated middle-of the-outback type area. It's on the outskirts of the city, albeit up a quiet country lane in with typical farm type landscape. I suppose I would just like to think these Bees are as hardy as they appeared to be today. It was an amazing experience! I'd love to see inside their hives. I've definitely got to capture some.

 

[For want of a better word]

Yes they could but equally the cavity may just be repopulated by swarms as the colony dies out every three years or so.
There is a research paper by Catherine Thompson who did a survey on “ wild bee” nests in the UK and her conclusion was that most had similar genetics to the bees kept by the local beekeepers and it was most likely that these nests originated from kept colonies.

From personal correspondence with Catherine Thompson a couple of years back, it appears that there are no feral (wild) bees in the British Isles... but there are feral bee sites, populated by whatever bees the local beekeepers keep.... allowed to escape!!
I removed a large colony from an old Mine workings building today ... bees were very calm and very dark... as would be expected in an area where most beekeepers keep the Native Dark Cornish honey bee.... owner of the site was very happy with the 2 large buckets, full of wild honeycomb!

 

[B+.]

this isn't an isolated middle-of the-outback type area. It's on the outskirts of the city, albeit up a quiet country lane in with typical farm type landscape. I suppose I would just like to think these Bees are as hardy as they appeared to be today. It was an amazing experience! I'd love to see inside their hives. I've definitely got to capture some.

Hi Julie
Looking at your location, would it be fair to assume that there is a lot of migratory beekeeping in the area?
My supposition is that they are, as Erichalfbee suggested, escaped swarms from neighbouring colonies.
That isn't saying they are good, bad or indifferent - just an attempt to understand where they came from. They will, of course, have requeened over the years, which means that the drones, at least, will have been produced by neighbouring colonies.
To see if they have any heritable qualities, you would need to have access to the brood and assess the colonies performance over a period of time. It sounds as though this is out of the question, but, perhaps you could collect a swarm and test it (see attached link http://www.coloss.org/standard-methods-for-rearing-and-selection-of-apis-mellifera-queens/#3.).
I am doubtful that you'll find it's as good as you think, but, I hope for your sake I'm wrong.

 

[beeno]

Hi Julie, Welcome to the forum. Why don't you get a bait hive out now? You may be lucky with an August swarm!

 

[Julie in Ash]

Hi Julie
Looking at your location, would it be fair to assume that there is a lot of migratory beekeeping in the area?
My supposition is that they are, as Erichalfbee suggested, escaped swarms from neighbouring colonies.
That isn't saying they are good, bad or indifferent - just an attempt to understand where they came from. They will, of course, have requeened over the years, which means that the drones, at least, will have been produced by neighbouring colonies.
To see if they have any heritable qualities, you would need to have access to the brood and assess the colonies performance over a period of time. It sounds as though this is out of the question, but, perhaps you could collect a swarm and test it (see attached link http://www.coloss.org/standard-methods-for-rearing-and-selection-of-apis-mellifera-queens/#3.).
I am doubtful that you'll find it's as good as you think, but, I hope for your sake I'm wrong.

Hi B+

If there are migratory Beekeepers they are small time and no one down the Association talks about migration between forage sources. I know of one chap who has around 25 hives who will move them around a bit. The majority of Beekeepers I've met round here have between 2 to 6 or so hives that stay put, maybe spread across different permanent out Apiaries. The area concerned is 10 minutes drive outside of Canterbury. I know of one Beekeeper who has hives 2 miles away but that's it. So obviously there are passing drones etc.

I didn't think these were actually native Bees to make myself clear. They look like regular local mongrels. But I do suspect although the colonies have superseded and mingled with passing drones from managed stocks, they could have been feral for quite some generations. My friend has been there for a few years now. She's seen activity around there all year round except for the coldest, wettest days. I supposed it's possible they'd died out and got replaced but she's never seen sudden heaps of dead Bees being thrown out the nests and she'd definitely notice anything like like as dead Bees would be on her doorstep almost. Although she's not an expert at swarm movements of course, she has watched mating flights and swarms leaving she says.

As this stage in the game I'm just hoping for calm Bees who will let me handle them and tolerate my mistakes while I'm learning, and not too prone to things like brood issues or other weaknesses. We shall see.

 

[Beefriendly]

As this stage in the game I'm just hoping for calm Bees who will let me handle them and tolerate my mistakes while I'm learning, and not too prone to things like brood issues or other weaknesses. We shall see.

It may not be too wise to extrapolate that bees that do not attack you 6 ft from the nest entrance are necessarily calm bees to handle.
If you really want calm bees then the best way to ensure this is to buy a Nuc headed by a Buckfast/Italian/Carniolan queen from a reputable breeder.

 

[Julie in Ash]

Hi Julie, Welcome to the forum. Why don't you get a bait hive out now? You may be lucky with an August swarm!

Hi Beeno

I was sorely tempted but I'm not yet properly kitted out enough, and after talking with the people down my Association, they think it's asking a lot of a swarm caught round here now to be ready for winter. (They are keeping their ears open for any established hive going as some people are thinking of giving up) In the area they would be going all the farm crops are done. It's a flower grower nursery where my hives will be going when I've sorted them. There is masses of large Eucalyptus trees on the site but I'm not sure if that's finished for the year or not. Looking at them they seem to be at least midway through and are forming seed heads. So if there is a swarm now, I am not sure they'd be fixed up enough to get through winter anyway.

 

[Swarm]

If you move a colony away from that location, within a couple of generations they will be different bees anyway.
Nothing wrong with luring a swarm though. A nice, calm colony of these bees will give you a sense of satisfaction, they will mean a lot to you.

 

[Murox]

I have today visited my friend who rents a small farm cottage. She is surrounded on 3 sides by very old farm buildings - probably from the 1700s - which are Grade 1 listed. It's wild Beehive central! 10 feet from my friend's front door is a small grain store or barn. I counted 3 separate colonies using different access point around the building. Several hundred Bees were bearding on the entrance point of what I think is the main colony. There is no chance whatsoever of opening that barn and removing or inspecting the hive as it's a protected building.

There's also a hive in my friend's chimney top, and at least one other in a neighbouring Oast. The house across the road had them too but pest controllers gassed them and sealed up the chimney around 10 years back I am told. I must have seen thousands of Bees buzzing in and out of hives and at least 5 colonies all within vision of my friend's front door. I suspect there's more colonies out of sight in other buildings there.

These Bees are so calm it's unreal. I stood within 6 feet of the hive entrance and not one Bee could be bothered to come take a look at me. I guess as it's a busy working farm yard they are used to much comings and goings.

My plan is in the Spring I am going to try trap a swarm. There's been swarms in my friend's garden before and the local Association comes to get them. (Not my Association). With so many colonies around I fancy my chances of catching one. I'd like to work with these Bees as they seem so calm and they interest me. They are survivors I suspect.

Here's my question.... longer term farm workers claim this barn next to my friend's cottage has been packed with Bees for 40 years, maybe even much longer than that. Constant activity for decades. The farmer doesn't mind but doesn't bother about them either as he's a Sheep and Cattle farmer. Bees are no good to him. Nor has he sprayed anything as no need.

Could these Bees have developed stronger genes to resist certain viruses and diseases as they appear so strong and prolific? This is less than 10 miles from the city centre and there's at least one Beekeeper a couple of miles up the road. They aren't an isolated sub-strain I don't think as drones from other colonies would mingle there. But I suspect they have developed stronger genes over the years. Is this a reasonable hunch?

Its a reasonable hunch, but its more likely that they may have developed coping strategies . Isolation could potentially reduce their gene pool, but as there are apiaries around the area they probably have mixed with those anyway. There is evidence that that bees left to themselves tend to do well anyway.

 

[Ian123]

"There is evidence that that bees left to themselves tend to do well anyway."

What sources are you looking at for that statement