Queens, Drone Congregation Areas, and the English Channel.

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BeeJayBee

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Interesting things books, but sometimes they don't say quite enough.

In a downloadable beginners-type book (Practical Manual of Beekeeping) it says, along with mentioning the Drone Congregation Area at Selborne that Gilbert White wrote about, this :-
With worker bee encouragement [the Queen] leaves the hive and flies some distance to what is known as a drone congregation area (DCA), where she mates on the wing with up to 20–30 drone bees, but usually fewer.
Does anybody know any more about this, because I've ended up with more questions, but I haven't yet got enough books to find out for myself.

If these DCAs are permanent, which seems to be the case in Selborne, how do the first drones (and Queens) of each season know where to go?

Does the Queen get escorted by her own drones, who've been on an earlier reconnaissance trip to suss out the best place for her to go?

How far is the 'some distance' for bees? Is it a hundred yards, half a mile, two miles? And how far apart are these areas?

I also read somewhere (it may have been on an internet forum, because I can't find it in a book) that Queens tend to fly south, gradually going upwards from their hive, but don't like to cross water. They take advantage of this with the “Island Bred Queens”, which can be fearfully expensive.

So, what happens to new Queens in colonies very close to the south coast of Britain? I've seen hives really near the sea with not much more than scrub between them and the shoreline. Do they break the rules and fly north?

Link to book http:// files. Uniteddiversity .com /Beekeeping / A_ Practical _ Manual _of _Beekeeping .pdf
 
DCAs tend to be located over particularly landscape features which won't change between generations. so the bees just find an area which happens to fulfill their needs and it is the same each time.

queens don't fly far to DCAs whereas drones do.

the key wording is "tend to fly south" NOT "always fly south"
 
Do a bit of Googling and you will find a lot written about DCAs, e.g. http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/index.cfm?cat=Story&recordID=603

(Which if you can read without glasses you have very good eyesight)

How do the first bees of the season know where to go? How does a cuckoo chick know it has to push the other eggs and young out of the nest? Instinct I guess.
 
where she mates on the wing with up to 20–30 drone

I am always suspicious of books written like that, especially if it occurs regularly. Completely rubbish in our simple language. Is it up to 20, up to 30? Can't be both, can it? Signs of B**A writings.
 
My understanding is that the queen "takes on board" enough semen to fill her spermethecas, and I assume (possibly wrongly) that each queen will have different capacities and so will need to mate with the number of drones that fulfil her requirements, and of course the drones themselves will have differing amounts to "donate".

Or in KISS terms, it all depends on the individuals.

PH
 
DCA and Drones

Hello,
If I can be permitted to add my contribution.

DCA: It must be by instinct. Similar behaviour can be observed in other insects such as butterflies. Some male butterflies "hilltop", meaning that they congregate on hilltops waiting for the females to appear. The behaviour is even more pronounced in for example the Charaxes where the males select certain twigs on certain trees. The males establish a territory around the site which they patrol and fight with other males for supremacy. This territorial behaviour starts in mid morning, in the early afternoon females can be seen passing through these sites and the dominant male follows the female to some secluded safe spot where copulation takes place. Once the male leaves, another male soon appears and takes over the territory. Now these sites are the same year after year, even though the adult butterflies might be on the wing for a only a month or so as the species might only raise one brood annually. So obviously the sites are selected for some reason only know to the butterflies themselves.

Drones: In the European races of honey bees the queens mate with up to 25 drones and the African adansonii/scutellata with up to 45. This has been proven by DNA analysis of the semen.
 
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where she mates on the wing with up to 20–30 drone

I am always suspicious of books written like that, especially if it occurs regularly. Completely rubbish in our simple language. Is it up to 20, up to 30? Can't be both, can it? Signs of B**A writings.

:iagree:
I suppose some genius with a pair of binoculars watched it happen and lost count when distracted by a UFO.
BBKA TWADDLE
:banghead:

Concentrate on the important aspects of bee keeping and don't waste your time worrying about something which is beyond your control and irrelevant.
 
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Most of the drones sperm is rejected after mating has taken place,ie only a tiny amount from each drone reaches the spermatheca.
 
From a pevious thread...........

Drone congregation areas


‘There is a natural occurrence to be met with upon the highest part of our down on hot summer days, which always amuses me much, without giving me any satisfaction with respect to the cause of it; & that is a loud audible humming of bees in the air, tho’ not one insect is to be seen. This sound is to be heard distinctly the whole common through, from the Moneydells, to Mr White’s avenue-gate. Any person would suppose that a large swarm of bees was in motion, & playing about over his head. This noise was heard last week on June 28th.’

Gilbert White, ‘A Natural History of Selborne’

The above writing is believed to be the earliest known reference to what we now call a drone congregation area. (DCA)

Although a lot of research has been carried out into drone behaviour in DCAs, no one has yet satisfactorily explained why the DCAs occur in certain places, and even more mystifying, why they persist in the same places year after year. (The DCA referred to by Gilbert White is still in use today.

Virtually all drones die in the previous autumn, so how do the new drones know where to go? Light distribution and the contour of the horizon seem to play a part in choosing a site Pechhacker 1994) and Zmarlicki and Morse determined that most DCAs seem to be located over an open area of land of about a hectare, protected from strong winds .Obstructions such as high buildings and tall trees are avoided, but not all open spaces are used. The flyways connecting the DCAs tend to follow lines of trees or hedges, etc . There may be several DCAs adjacent to each other. One study showed that a 10 sq k. area next to an commercial apiary contained at least 26 DCAs and 18km of flyways. Based on radar images a DCA was defined as an area approx. 100m in diameter, where the drones fly at a mean height of 25m-it depends on wind velocity. The stronger the wind, the lower the drones fly.

POETRY BREAK

The night is still young and our drinks are yet long,
The fire's burning bright and here brave is the throng,
So now I will sing you a sooth little song
Of the busy brown bee - with a ding and a dong.

—J. R. R. Tolkien, Natura Apis (A drinking song)

Many drones seem to stay faithful to one DCA, but may visit another in the same general direction. Two to three miles seems to be an average distance for a drone to fly, but they have been known to travel up to 5 miles. For a queen rearer wanting pure matings from a mating apiary, it seems that this is the minimum distance there must be from any other hives, or else a physical barrier of 500m or more must be present. The parentage of a sample of drones was tested in Germany in 1998, and the conclusion reached was that all the colonies in the area seemed to send roughly the same proportion of delegates to the meeting, thus minimising the chances of inbreeding. (C.Collinson, Bee Culture, Sep. 2008) Because mating takes place in flight, it is difficult to observe.

Modern technology such as radar, combined with the technique of tethering a virgin queen to a moving line, has shown drones detecting a virgin forming a long comet- shaped tail behind her. Recent studies have shown that the drones find the virgin primarily by smell. One of the components of queen substance, called 9-ODA, attracts drones during mating flights. (Apis UK, July 2008). However, it has also been noticed that drones will momentarily chase anything that moves, butterflies, dragonflies or a thrown stone, so presumably eyesight plays a part as well.

Drones have to be very fit and well developed to mate with a queen. In addition to the excellent flying power needed to catch the queen, they must have ample supplies of spermatazoa, as only a fraction of each ejaculate will migrate to the queen’s spermatheca. (Woyke and Jasinski, 1973) In a series of studies made by Duay et al, in 2002, it was shown that the effects of parasitism by Varroa destructor in the larval stage, could seriously affect the drones ability to mate. A significant reduction in drone body weight resulted from invasion by only one female varroa mite, and two or more mites reduced drone life expectancy so much that sexual maturity was seldom reached. Varroa parasitism by only one mite hardly affected flying power but sperm production was reduced by 24%. In those drones that survived, two female mites invasion resulted in greatly reduced flying power and a sperm reduction of 45%. Other interesting facts to emerge are;

1. Drones like it hot. Flying to a DCA and gathering enough drones to form a comet only occurs at 18C or above.
2. They are very good time keepers, generally flying between 2.00pm and 6.00pm This varies according to the weather.
3. Drones returning to the apiary outside these times were not interested in a queen.
4. Maximum flight height in flyways is 21m, but in DCAs it can reach 50m.
5. Drones can make several trips to a DCA in an afternoon, returning to the hive to refuel when necessary. Each mating flight lasts about 30 mins.
6. The number of drones in a DCA can vary enormously, from hundreds to thousands.
7. Usually, 7 to 11 drones will mate with a queen. About 90 million sperm will be deposited in her oviducts, and a mixture of about 7 million of them will be stored in her spermatheca

Mating

The actual process of mating has now been documented quite thoroughly. drone mounts a queen and inserts his endophallus and ejaculates his semen. During ejaculation he falls backwards and his endophallus is torn from his body, remaining in the queen. Any subsequent males mating with the queen dislodge the previous drones endophallus and leave their own in its place. The drones die quickly with their abdomens ruptured in this fashion. The queen returns to her hive still carrying the endophallus of the last male to mate with her. Beekeepers call this the ‘mating sign’ It will be removed by the nurse bees. The process is described very clearly in ‘The Biology of the Honeybee’ by Mark Winston.

The Down-and-Out.

Once the mating season is over, the ‘raison d’etre’ of the drones is gone. Only in queenless or very well provisioned colonies will some be allowed to overwinter in the hive. There is no sentimentality in nature, and drones with no function to perform are simply a drain on valuable resources, ie honey stores. In the autumn they are refused entry to the hive, or have their wings bitten and are forcibly ejected, to die of cold and starvation.

BIBLIOGRPHY

‘Bees, Biology and Management’ by Peter G. Kevan.

‘The Biology of the Honeybee’ by Mark L. Winston.

‘Anatomy and Dissection of the Honeybee’ by H. A.Dade.

‘Bee Genetics and Breeding’ edited by Thomas Rinderer

‘Drone Congregation Areas’ by C. Collison. (Bee Culture, Sep 2008)

‘Beekeeping’ by Kim Flottum.

‘Pheromones of the Social bees’ by John Free.

‘The Honey Bees of the British Isles’ by Beowolf Cooper.



And why is understanding of drone behaviour so important? Understanding drones may well be the key to controlling varroa. Drones range over a 5 mile radius. Workers range over a 3 mile radius. Drones are tolerated , even welcomed in strange hives. Worker bees are prevented from entering starange hives unless they have a full load of honey. For the varroa mite to spread it needs to defferentially lay in drone cells . This behaviour has evolved within the primary host/parastite, that of apis cerana/Varroa destructor. Those who keep the Honey Bee, Apis melifera, have long noticed the preference for varroa to lay in drone cells. This has lead to the destruction of drone cells becoming an indicator of varroa infestation . Stimulation of the queen to lay whole frames of drones which are then destroyed is now a regular part of Integrated Pest Management IPM.
__________________

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8491
 
HM: "Most of the drones sperm is rejected after mating has taken place,ie only a tiny amount from each drone reaches the spermatheca."

This happens in many species - especially non monogamous ones.

Interesting reading below - first 2 with "interesting" pictures of immediately post-coital zebras and the latter 2 having details of a research study where recruits where female students (who else) - won't go into further details here but "one girl; one cup" sums it up nicely.


Female control: sexual selection by cryptic female choice by Dr William G. Eberhard

Human sperm competition: copulation, masturbation and infidelity
Robin Baker, Mark A. Bellis

Baker, R. R., & Bellis, M. A. (1993). Human sperm competition: Ejaculate manipulation by females and a function for the female orgasm. Animal Behavior, 46, 887–909.

Sperm wars: the science of sex by Robin Baker
 
Apparently quite a huge rejection,as a well mated queen would have between 4.5 and 7 million sperm in her spermatheca,and one good drone can have up to 10 million sperm.
 
:iagree:
I suppose some genius with a pair of binoculars watched it happen and lost count when distracted by a UFO.
BBKA TWADDLE
:banghead:

Concentrate on the important aspects of bee keeping and don't waste your time worrying about something which is beyond your control and irrelevant.

What a short-sighted post. And for info the author only started out being a member of the BBKA at local level and went on to do academic study on bees after an army career I believe before emigrating to Spain. Can't believe that forumers are picking on a slightly awkward sentence and taking ridiculous and irrelevant potshots at the BBKA once again. Actually, I can. Sigh...
 
the key wording is "tend to fly south" NOT "always fly south"
Yes, of course. TY
Do a bit of Googling and you will find a lot written about DCAs, e.g. http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/index.cfm?cat=Story&recordID=603
I need to hone my Google skills, thanks. Very interesting - "control" and "scroll +" helped make it readable!

Some male butterflies "hilltop" .... establish a territory around the site which they patrol and fight with other males for supremacy.
Sounds the same as male Dragonflies guarding their patch of water. :) Fascinating to watch.

I hadn't seen that, thanks for the pointer.
Signs of B**A writings.
B**A TWADDLE
No, it's a beginners book written by David Cramp. It's been mentioned on this forum a few times, and came equal third in a poll >> here

The author maintains a "Beekeeping Science and News" website too. It's called Apis http://apisuk.com/Bees/about-the-editor/
I suppose some genius with a pair of binoculars watched it happen and lost count ...
No, researchers don't seem to use binoculars any more, not if this article is right, it looks as if they were using radar to track the drones as long ago as 1987, logic suggests researchers have used radar for longer than that.

Rather than trying to count the drones actually mating, which would be hard in the wild without careful filming, they tend to use DNA fingerprinting to estimate the number of drones that have successfully inseminated the Queen. Results of a number of samples are aggregated, which give an 'up to' or 'average' number of successful drones per queen. The minimum would be one drone. From what I've read it looks as if the colony uses pheromones to sniff out poorly mated queens, keep those that have successfully mated with what they think are enough drones, and get rid of those that haven't.

Concentrate on the important aspects of bee keeping and don't waste your time worrying about something which is beyond your control and irrelevant.
I might never get involved in Queen rearing etc., but I see absolutely no reason to close my mind to the Science of it, and research methods used. If nothing else it might help me understand how some bee breeders can charge as much as, for example, 400 Euros for mated queens http://www.buckfast.dk/en/bq-flash.html and how others can be sure of their bees pedigree http://www.buckfastameland.nl/pede2001.htm

It's sad to feel I have to defend asking what, to me, is an interesting question. :confused: I really don't understand the antagonism.
 
It's sad to feel I have to defend asking what, to me, is an interesting question. :confused: I really don't understand the antagonism.

Shouldn't worry too much, it looks as if the constructive answers that you received have greatly increased your knowledge in the last day. Result!
 
It's sad to feel I have to defend asking what, to me, is an interesting question. :confused: I really don't understand the antagonism.

Please don't let some silly comment put you off Beejoyful,it is an interesting subject.
 
I really don't understand the antagonism.

No antagonism, just advice on the tome.

New beeks can pick up lots of wrong information, supposedly given out as hard fact. They may well not even realise the discrepancies. +50% or -33% dependent on which direction you care to do the maths is just sloppy or demonstrated the author doesn't really know. Only he/she knows which it is.

The observation that it was a sign of 'B**A writing' was simply a warning note (to some) that poorly proof-read, inaccurate, duplicitous or downright misleading texts should be marked down as they deserve. Beginners' books should be simpler, factually correct and not misleading.

It may be the only instance in the book and that is unfortunate - or it may be riddled with similar discrepancies. No real excuse for it, if the latter is the case. Not read it, nor likely to, and the votes for it were likely from a large proportion of 'likers' rather than 'knowers', so don't put too much emphasis on it's rating. There are a lot of criteria for judging a book. Likely most don't think of more than 'ease of read'.
 
The observation that it was a sign of 'B**A writing' was simply a warning note (to some) that poorly proof-read, inaccurate, duplicitous or downright misleading texts should be marked down as they deserve. Beginners' books should be simpler, factually correct and not misleading.

OK, if that's how you feel misleading comments should be treated ... lets examine the text below which was posted on the Omlet forum on Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:53 pm:

Sorry but have to disagree where mis-information is concerned. Bees do not dump copious excesses of nectar onto undrawn foundation. It will either be processed in supers (drawn) or the broodbox.

Nectar is either stored around the brood nest, as food for developing larvae, or processed into honey and stored a little 'longer term' (arc above the brood) or for the winter. It is not stored for the beekeeper!

One normally adds a super below the existing one(s) because: The normal way for bees to store (or even brood) is top downwards. Consider if there were already two or three supers on and the bees are filling at the bottom, would they go up 3 storeys to find some more space? I don't think so.

Secondly, the bees will have to travel over the foundation to get to the work in progress. That will get them accustomed to the new wax. Finished cappings would also be walked over by many bees if the work in progress is above capped honey, so not such a sensible idea. Further the new super, if it needs to be drawn, will be in a warm place - just above the brood nest. Better for wax secretion, and manipulation, by the bees. One might notice that wax drawing usually starts direcly above the brood nest, not at the ends of the fsuper.

Not a daft question, but easily worked out when you consider all the options (apart from storing nectar on foundation!).

The supering is not the way the bees would do it naturally. This is one part of beekeeping that has to be altered from their natural response, so the closer it is to the brood nest the better.

Regards, ***

======================================================================

I have a big issue the misleading statements (the one marked bold), especially when these are provided to beginners as "the truth".

Here is a video that demonstrates that bees will quite happily work supers placed above sealed supers.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DwBulJzKBM[/ame]
 
It's not actually wrong advice.

There was research done, canna remember now where, but not that long ago and the finding was that putting empty supers under full ones and above the brood nest stimulated greater nectar collection.

So wrong but right... LOL

PH
 
I posted this link to a paper Effects of Top vs Bottom Supering on Honey Yield. Berry & Delaplane, Apicultural Research. ABJ 2000 pages 409:410 in a previous thread. A summary is given below.

There was not significant difference between supering treatments. Top or bottom supering did not significantly affect total yield of honey averaged across three apiaries and two nectar flows. Although the honey yield was numerically higher when bottom supering was employed this difference was not statistically significant. We found that bottom supering did not affect yield in either a strong flow or a moderate one.

The main statement from the paper is: Bottom supering a relatively labor-intensive practice does not significantly increase nectar yield.

So it appears bottom supering does not stimulate greater nectar collection than top supering and bees will move up more than 3 supers to find space when storing honey.
 
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