Queen intro update

[jeff33]

As the other thread has been closed here is a reminder and update.
I had to dispatch a mated queen from a feisty hive on 3 supers and demaree set-up (didn't allow a top queen to be raised). I left them queen less for 8 days, removed all Qcs and left them hopelessly quenless for an hour after which I introduced a 3 frame nuc with a laying mated queen straight in the middle. the queen was not caged but I made sure she was on the inside of these 3 frames. I used air freshener as I introduced.
I opened the hive today (5 days after) and found the queen laying happily in the hive. This maybe the way forward for quick introduction!

 

[enrico]

As the other thread has been closed here is a reminder and update.
I had to dispatch a mated queen from a feisty hive on 3 supers and demaree set-up (didn't allow a top queen to be raised). I left them queen less for 8 days, removed all Qcs and left them hopelessly quenless for an hour after which I introduced a 3 frame nuc with a laying mated queen straight in the middle. the queen was not caged but I made sure she was on the inside of these 3 frames. I used air freshener as I introduced.
I opened the hive today (5 days after) and found the queen laying happily in the hive. This maybe the way forward for quick introduction!

I don't believe you needed to make them hopelessly queenless! I have combined immediately with air freshener with no problem! Good to know it worked though!

 

[jeff33]

I don't believe you needed to make them hopelessly queenless! I have combined immediately with air freshener with no problem! Good to know it worked though!

I have done the usual unite with adding a box on top of the other but never put 3 frames with a queen straight in the middle of the brood nest of a strong hive. I didn't know what to expect.

 

[enrico]

I have done the usual unite with adding a box on top of the other but never put 3 frames with a queen straight in the middle of the brood nest of a strong hive. I didn't know what to expect.

I agree, it is scary. I had my doubts the first time I did it. Then I wondered what all the fuss was about. You really don't need much air freshener, just a small squirt! ( As the actress said to the bishop!!)

 

[elainemary]

I have done the usual unite with adding a box on top of the other but never put 3 frames with a queen straight in the middle of the brood nest of a strong hive. I didn't know what to expect.

That’s how Prof Jamie Ellis does it. Not sure if you’ve heard of him - does a lot of webinars for large associations on bee biology. Been keeping bees since a teenager and one of the leading US scientists; University of Florida. Does regular podcasts ‘Two bees in a podcast’ featuring lots of interesting guest scientists.

Listened to one of his webinars about queens and one of his podcasts about introduction, he simply puts the Nuc with the replacement queen at the back of the box (away from the flying bees, who are the ones that would kill her if they were feeling that way). He doesn’t use newspaper or air freshener

 

[Erichalfbee]

By the way @jeff33, that was very brave. I'm glad it worked

 

[Newbeeneil]

I used air freshener to introduce a queen to a nuc that wouldn't accept her after 3 attempts in a cage. On the third try they were balling her so I sprayed her and the nuc with air freshener and put on the lid. All was calmness and light next day.

 

[Finman]

I opened the hive today (5 days after) and found the queen laying happily in the hive. This maybe the way forward for quick introduction!

The basic in that way is, that when bees have capped their own queen cells, they accept quite well a new queen.

Push in cage is good tool to make sure, that they do not start to ball the queen.

 

[jeff33]

The basic in that way is, that when bees have capped their own queen cells, they accept quite well a new queen.

Push in cage is good tool to make sure, that they do not start to ball the queen.

I didn't use a cage this time, straight in the hive on 2 frames of her own brood and workers.

 

[Finman]

The basic in that way is, that when bees have capped their own queen cells, they are ready accept new queens.

Push in cage is good tool to make sure, that they do not start to ball the queen.

I didn't use a cage this time, straight in the hive on 2 frames of her own brood and workers.

Of course not, if it is hive's own reared queen.
Me either.

 

[jeff33]

Of course not, if it is hive's own reared queen.
Me either.

No, it was a different hive Finnie. I killed the queen as the bees were too defensive and requeened without using a cage.

That’s how Prof Jamie Ellis does it. Not sure if you’ve heard of him - does a lot of webinars for large associations on bee biology. Been keeping bees since a teenager and one of the leading US scientists; University of Florida. Does regular podcasts ‘Two bees in a podcast’ featuring lots of interesting guest scientists.

Listened to one of his webinars about queens and one of his podcasts about introduction, he simply puts the Nuc with the replacement queen at the back of the box (away from the flying bees, who are the ones that would kill her if they were feeling that way). He doesn’t use newspaper or air freshener

I have never heard of him unfortunately. Putting it at the back away from flyers is a really good idea. Ricky Wilson who passed away at the start of covid told me he was doing the same without problems.... I will be making a few more 3 frames nuc over the winter!!

 

[nantmoel]

I have as I type got a breeder queen in one of the Abelo/Lyson frames cages, I have a frame of emerging bees in the frame cage and the new breeder queen. I'll leave it for a few day and release her when I'm happy that she's laying. I'll post an update in the next few days.

 

[elainemary]

I have as I type got a breeder queen in one of the Abelo/Lyson frames cages, I have a frame of emerging bees in the frame cage and the new breeder queen. I'll leave it for a few day and release her when I'm happy that she's laying. I'll post an update in the next few days.

I’ve just done that. Put my breeder on the comb she was on together with a comb I wanted her to lay on and a dummy board to close the gap in the Abelo cage.

Experimented with 4 days and 5 days on 2 separate occasions and got really good larva day 4 (3 as egg) from both trials. I used an old comb for her to lay on , as easier to either graft or cell punch if cocoons in the comb.

Leaving her free in the colony instead without a cage means she may lay on new vs older combs and more work finding the right comb and age of larva

Here’s some pics . It should work well for you too and give spot on timings on the right comb.

 

[nantmoel]

I said I would update followers what happened! Well not good news I looked in yesterday and the frame had loads of young bees all emerged with the new queen, and the breeder queen laying dead at the bottom of the cage. Such is life, god only knows what's happened. I'll give it another go next week.

 

[jeff33]

Oh no, gutted. Not sure I follow, did you leave another queen running free in the same hive while your breeder was caged?

 

[nantmoel]

Oh no, gutted. Not sure I follow, did you leave another queen running free in the same hive while your breeder was caged?

No, I made split from a strong Nuc making sure the queen was left in the original, the frame that the queen was caged on was a frame of emerging brood. Its been a terrible year for introducing queens for me, thats why I tried this method.

 

[jeff33]

Well, they gave her 10 days and killed her preferring to make their own. Perhaps this hive was too strong for such introduction.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well, they gave her 10 days and killed her preferring to make their own. Perhaps this hive was too strong for such introduction.

Couldn’t you just spit when they do that. I’ve lost a couple of queens this way. Let the queen lay a few eggs then do her in and raise their own from the eggs.

 

[jeff33]

Indeed, this is the 2nd or 3rd time it has happened, always with a strong feisty hive. I will try a different method next time, separating brood from flyers and introducing to the brood half leaving a frame of bias to the flyers to keep them happy....ish!!

 

[gregior]

Indeed, this is the 2nd or 3rd time it has happened, always with a strong feisty hive. I will try a different method next time, separating brood from flyers and introducing to the brood half leaving a frame of bias to the flyers to keep them happy....ish!!

I have always found it very difficult to successfully introduce new queens into aggressive hives,I had one that was really bad and moved it to the other side of the apiary to lose the fliers before trying to find the Q and the flying bees went into the hive next door and killed that Queen!