Queen in super

[Frenchie]

Had a queenless colony so introduced a new, mated queen in a cage into the brood box. Gave her 48 hrs ,then broke the tab so candy could be eaten and she could exit. Left alone for 12 days and checked today. Cage empty ,but no brood in brood box. Bees very calm so checked the only super and wall to wall brood. No idea how she got past the queen excluder,double checked and no gaps. Would like to get her back into the brood box, did a search, but couldn't find her in the super so have removed the queen excluder and hoping she will make her own way back. Any other options?, thanks.

 

[Swarm]

Was she marked?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

shake all the bees down into the brood box and put the QX back.

 

[Frenchie]

Yes she was marked,but still couldn't find her. Weather was looking bad so didn't spend to long. Next sunny day will shake all the bees into the brood box and replace queen excluder. Thanks.

 

[GuyNir]

Any chance they could make a queen? Any chance you missed a queen cell when the new queen was introduced?
you might have a different (unmarked) queen there.
in any case, JBM’s suggestion above will make sure she’s down.

 

[Finman]

Mated queen and no brood after 12 days = dead

Perhaps virgin in the brood box.

 

[Swarm]

Mated queen and no brood after 12 days = dead

Perhaps virgin in the brood box.

Sounds very likely the case.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And in the super, with

wall to wall brood. .

?

 

[beeno]

Newly mated queen in super, thereof no brood in brood box, workers will kill foreign caged queen seems to be the most likely scenario.

 

[Swarm]

Newly mated queen in super, thereof no brood in brood box, workers will kill foreign caged queen seems to be the most likely scenario.

That.

 

[Frenchie]

That.

That.

Colony had been queenless, I think,for at least 4 weeks . No sign of a queen or eggs,brood ,etc. No sign of a dead queen in brood boxshe was very clearly marked.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Newly mated queen in super, thereof no brood in brood box,

That.

Where did this newly mated queen come from? if a newly mated queen could pass through the QX, any queen could Therefore it could quite as easily have been the newly introduced queen.

 

[HarryO]

I found wall to wall brood in supers non in brood box.
Decanted all bees out of supers into brood box found queen whilst decanting. She is very small, and hard to find but I did and marked her, put her in B.box.
Put different Queen excluder on (in case problem with spacing on original QX).
Did another inspection yesterday found B.box still empty and found Q in supers - again!
Put a super frame of brood in brood box. Then QX on.
Put her on top of QX on top of B.box to see how she got through. She squeezed herself through and into brood box.
I put supers back on and closed up.
If she is not laying in B.box next inspection she will have to go and I will unite colony with another hive.
Shame really because she is small but beautifully formed! Very nice colours as well and she lays up the supers and the colony is nice and calm.

 

[thorn]

I found wall to wall brood in supers non in brood box.
Decanted all bees out of supers into brood box found queen whilst decanting. She is very small, and hard to find but I did and marked her, put her in B.box.
Put different Queen excluder on (in case problem with spacing on original QX).
Did another inspection yesterday found B.box still empty and found Q in supers - again!
Put a super frame of brood in brood box. Then QX on.
Put her on top of QX on top of B.box to see how she got through. She squeezed herself through and into brood box.
I put supers back on and closed up.
If she is not laying in B.box next inspection she will have to go and I will unite colony with another hive.
Shame really because she is small but beautifully formed! Very nice colours as well and she lays up the supers and the colony is nice and calm.

Perhaps it's the bees' way of telling you to forget about QXs entirely and try the Rose method.

 

[Swarm]

Where did this newly mated queen come from? if a newly mated queen could pass through the QX, any queen could Therefore it could quite as easily have been the newly introduced queen.

I'm thinking it is possible there was already a queen in the hive that got into the super, one way or another. When concerned with the brood box status, inspections involved removing super and inspecting brood frames, were those shallow frames checked for signs of brood during those weeks?
If the marked queen is found, she is either small or the excluder is faulty but not being able to find her in a shallow box and the whole business of brood in the super makes me think they did her in.
I had a queen bumped off after making up a nuc and introducing in the usual way. Checked the bees and combs, all fine, no open brood, no cells. Broke the tab, all fine, no cells and very friendly bees. Next visit saw eggs and new queen. Few days later, found BIAS, dead queen!!
Nothing added up timing wise, even missing a cell, there was not enough time for a new queen to mate and start laying but there she was brazenly laying in front of me. Concluded she must have been there all along and I missed her because I found 'the queen' when I was making up the nuc and then concentrated on sealed combs, etc.
It happens as they say .... minus the first two letters

 

[beeno]

Where did this newly mated queen come from? if a newly mated queen could pass through the QX, any queen could Therefore it could quite as easily have been the newly introduced queen.

We are looking at different possible scenarios and all possibilities needs to be explored. Colonies very rarely go -Q and it had been -Q for four weeks, time for a queen to emerge and get mated. QX are designed, so that the thorax of a queen cannot pass through it. But have you never found that you have accidentally, through beekeeper error, found a queen in the super - I have once. It happened a few times at a teaching apiary. She has now been decanted and she was unmarked. For the future it would be advisable for forum members who have the ability to cage their queens also to mark them in order to carry out accurate postmortems. Thanks for your support Swarm

 

[Abbee]

Last year the same thing happened to us so we put the queen excluder on top of the Super and luckily she then grew big enough not to go through to the honey supers. We carried on with the brood and a half until this Spring when we removed the brood super while doing the split. It was pretty empty by then.
She's turned out to be our best queen out of 8 hives.

 

[kermit]

I'd go to brood and a half over winter - just feed them up to fill the frames. You'll need less fondant!