Queen Excluder - practicalities of not using one?

[RichardK]

I see fairly often people saying that they don't use a queen excluder. In this scenario I don't understand how people can ever harvest honey as it's probably all mixed up with pollen & larvae on the same frame.... or maybe I'm missing something here!

Can someone explain how it works without a queen excluder or point me towards an article somewhere?
Thanks

 

[user 819]

As brood emerges in the upper boxes it will be replaced/back filled with nectar during a good flow, the queen eventually will to a degree be regulated to lower boxes lower down as stores are placed above forming a solid barrier.
One doesn't have to wait for the bees to regulate her, the beek can also manipulate combs to make the solid barrier.

It is only humans who use a QX in the wild bees have no need for them, a wild nest will have brood below and stores above. QX's are for the convenience of the beek and for those who have a need/must find a Q on every visit.

 

[gmonag]

If you use a conventional hive system (e.g. Langstroth, National etc.) with a deep brood box and shallow supers, then you would normally use a QE. If you designate a box for brood and others for honey it is the only logical way.
If however, you operate an unconventional system, especially if you use just one size of box (Langstroth mediums, Rose Hive, etc) then it is possible to omit the QE. The colony uses the frames in any way they wish but naturally they will raise brood in the lower boxes and store honey in the upper ones. When the time comes to harvest, you take any frames that only contain honey for extraction and leave the rest. All beekeepers can tell the difference between capped honey and brood. The nest is shrinking and the cells are used for storage after the brood emerges. Because the frames are all the same you can move them anywhere in the hive. You consolidate them down and wait a week. Then come back to remove more honey frames as required.

Research the Rose Hive Method for more info

 

[pargyle]

I see fairly often people saying that they don't use a queen excluder. In this scenario I don't understand how people can ever harvest honey as it's probably all mixed up with pollen & larvae on the same frame.... or maybe I'm missing something here!

Can someone explain how it works without a queen excluder or point me towards an article somewhere?
Thanks

I've never used queen excluders. I run a conventional 14 x 12 set up with supers. Yes in the early part of the season you occasionally see the centre of the first super laid up but as the brood emerges they back flll the cells with honey and by the time it comes to harvest (I usually just do one extraction in the first week or so of September) the brood is all back down in the brood box and there is no brood in the super. Occasionally there are a few cells of pollen on the perimeter of the brood frames but you can get that even if you use a queen excluder ... not a problem.

 

[user 819]

One can utilise any box size or mixture of two box sizes, one box size is the obvious choice if starting from scratch but most will already have kit and adapt what they already have. I am using a mix of a couple of BS deep and the rest supers.

One of my colonies has a BS deep and 3 super, the Q had laid in all in column fashion, checked last week and the top supper is filled with just one frame full of sealed brood, the super below is nearly half backfilled. As they have a bit of flow going on I have added another deep in between with starter comb every other frame. Eventually both BB's will be at the bottom.

 

[ericbeaumont]

how people can ever harvest honey as it's probably all mixed up with pollen & larvae on the same frame

The conventional rugby ball nest becomes tapered and can chimney all the way up the boxes, but it's no big deal. As said above, on the main flow the nest contracts down and the top boxes are back-filled as brood emerges.

Extracting frames with pollen is a bonus for our sort of customer - the sort that wants a pure product and may buy your honey to counteract hay fever.

The honey company I work for run 120 on brood boxes only with no QXs, unless putting on supers for cut comb. Some beekeepers will use a QX on the main flow, shaking or putting the queen into the bottom box under it, which accelerates the conversion of boxes from brood to honey.

 

[BigAshW]

The honey company I work for run 120 on brood boxes only with no QXs, unless putting on supers for cut comb.

I'm interested in using this style of beekeeping.
What swarm control method do you use with it?

 

[ericbeaumont]

I'm interested in using this style of beekeeping.
What swarm control method do you use with it?

You'll discover that swarming is vastly reduced when giving the queen free rein; we had about half a dozen out last year.

We don't do fancy swarm management: a walkaway split or AS is enough. If we could spend the money on split boards I'd prefer to go vertically and save using an extra floor and roof; we have no split boards but plenty of rough old roofs and floors, which add to logistical cost and energy.

On my own colonies I aim to triple-brood strong ones (as Tim Rowe describes) as soon as they show signs of going big, and add supers as necessary. Even then some have to be split, which is no big deal provided the Q- part makes a new queen (outcome uncertain) or is given one.

At the main flow I'll take the old queen out to a nuc and re-unite, to get the strongest workforce. Another option is to move splits away to another pallet on a foraging day: the flyers will join the remaining colonies which will then get the most honey.

Depends on your bees, of course. Swarm - Steve - uses 9 over 9 dummied down because that's what works with his bees, but round here the influence is Buckfast.

Single-box management with or without QXs is cost-effective and works well; I use supers because I have them. Tim Rowe's book or video is well worth a look.

 

[RichardK]

Thank you so much for all the really helpful responses here. All us beginners really appreciate it!