Queen cells sealed at day 6

[bees knees]

Hi Everyone
We have a colony that had some early queen cells 6 days ago. We removed them all and inspected again today only to find some sealed queen cells (and some unsealed), no eggs and no queen. Presume they have already swarmed. But did we definitely miss some queen cells last week? Is there any chance they produced them and sealed them faster than the textbooks say?? If not then what are your top tips for finding every last one - what should we be looking for in terms of early q cells that are easily missed? Or should we just be checking again earlier than day 6/7.
Thank you!

 

[Swarm]

Three day old larva? Check in five days.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Everyone
We have a colony that had some early queen cells 6 days ago. We removed them all and inspected again today only to find some sealed queen cells (and some unsealed), no eggs and no queen. Presume they have already swarmed. But did we definitely miss some queen cells last week? Is there any chance they produced them and sealed them faster than the textbooks say?? If not then what are your top tips for finding every last one - what should we be looking for in terms of early q cells that are easily missed? Or should we just be checking again earlier than day 6/7.
Thank you!

I think weekly inspections during the swarming season are too long. I check some of mine more often.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And tearing down all the QC's hardly ever works to prevent swarming - they've just selected some older larvae and cracked on with it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

And tearing down all the QC's hardly ever works to prevent swarming - they've just selected some older larvae and cracked on with it.

Ah didn’t spot that.
Yes that’s exactly what they do. Then they are off before you look in again.

 

[Arfermo]

But he said there was no queen. Missed that too?

 

[Finman]

Larva is 3 days

Larva is 5 days, and the larva is capped earlier. Larva eates one day too under capp. Actually the larva is capped after 4 days. Depends too, when you are moving. You do not have one hour exact time.

In your case bees do new queen larvae from 3 days old larva and they are capped after 2 days. 3- 4 -( 5)

You should make an AS and cut the swarming fever. If the colony has a hidden queen cell, you get a swarm.

Old queen use to go with swarm when first queen cells has been capped.

 

[Finman]

But he said there was no queen. Missed that too?

First swarm has gone then, when queen cells were capped first time. Happening is so old that the hive should not have larvae any more.

You see from the size/age of larvae, when the queen left the hive.

 

[Finman]

I think weekly inspections during the swarming season are too long. I check some of mine more often.

And you must make at once the AS, when you see queen cells.

 

[GuyNir]

But he said there was no queen. Missed that too?

OP said no Q today. Probably because they’re on a tree somewhere.

 

[bees knees]

OP said no Q today. Probably because they’re on a tree somewhere.

Unfortunately I think you are right!
Although not on one near enough to see
We have taken down all but one unsealed queen cell. Assume original queen and swarm have already gone. Should have done AS last week. Live and learn.

 

[hemo]

Clip a wing to save losing a swarm.

 

[Finman]

The whole swarm controll has not in understood and bees do, what the whole nature normally do. They multiply.

Quite much to learn instead of picking queen cells. And many interesting things to do then.

Last year I said that no swarm this year from my hives. But after 58 years trying there were two swarms at the tree top.

 

[bees knees]

Clip a wing to save losing a swarm.

I just don’t like the idea of doing this. Do most people do this? Seems should be manageable without if everything else is done well?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Clip a wing to save losing a swarm.

I just don’t like the idea of doing this. Do most people do this?

It's not quite as simple as just clipping a queen and everything is then fine - it just gives the beekeeper a few more days grace to fix things. they will still swarm once the QC is sealed, but because the queen is clipped (doesn't mean she cannot fly at all) she will quickly crash and get lost soon after leaving the hive - the queenless swarm will return to the hive and then leave when the first virgin emerges, thus a prime swarm headed by a virgin.

Seems should be manageable without if everything else is done well?

yes, if you only have a few hives and are able to inspect as and when required

 

[drex]

I never do. Wing clipping delays swarming. Does not prevent it
JBM beat me to it

 

[Finman]

I never do. Wing clipping delays swarming. Does not prevent it
JBM beat me to it

You can use your brain what it does, and what you do then.

 

[hemo]

Agree clipping isn't the be all and end all and doesn't prevent swarming but it gives a few precious days as well as hopefully not causing a problem for someone else when they turn up unexpectedly and stay.
One can organise the hive by way of a split/swarm control and unite again later once a new Q is settled.

If one is fortunate the clipped Q and swarm or some of it will return to the colony and may cluster underneath or one may find a small cluster on the ground not far from the entrance.
In a suburban location clipping may be more prudent..

 

[gmonag]

If your hives are where you can see them most of the time, e.g. in your garden, clipping the queen's wing can stop you losing the swarm, or having to collect it from a neighbour's garden.
You have to see the swarm in progress. The clipped queen will fall to the ground in front of the hive. Pick her up in a clip, put in on the top bars of a nuc box a few metres away from the original hive and wait. The swarm will find her and move in to the nuc box.

 

[elainemary]

From my limited experience of clipping (2nd season of doing it) it buys you a bit of extra time, as others have said. Find it particularly helpful for out apiaries and if there’s been a week of bad weather, so hive is more congested than usual leading to Q cells and first sunny day off they go. Had 2 swarms in 2 different apiaries last year that swarmed the same morning & couldn’t be in both places at the same time. Could have inspected in the rain the day before but just didn’t fancy it. One queen crawled back in the hive, the other the queen was ‘lost’ but all the bees returned. Meant I could then reduce cells to one without losing any bees. Gives you an extra c7 days after cells are sealed.

Clipped by hand last year. Hand was shaking whilst clipping my nicest queens but felt more confident after doing it. This year I’ve used a one handed queen catcher - see pic, it’s dead easy with v fine scissors to clip 1/3rd off the tip of one side of a forewing. Can re-mark at the same time. Recommend this.