Queen cells and splitting

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Bazzer 

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....another thought.....as my 'old' hive has two queen cells in there...and they are on two different frames....could I remove one of the frames of brood and a frame of stores and put it in a nuc...leaving all the other frames in the old hive???....Or would that deplete the 'old' hive too much???
Yes you could do that - it has the advantage of doubling your chances of getting a queen mated successfully - this can be a bit hit and miss at his time of year.
 

Nick Lang 

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So ....I did the pagden split....done all the swapping as per instructions...it has been a week since I moved the hives for the last time....just inspecting the "new hive" with the old queen...and found a frame with a bunch of queen cells..... can't see the queen anywhere... can't see any eggs either....lots of capped brood and lavae.....so I figured she flew off or something happened to her???....the hive is rammed with bees still...so she couldn't have taken many with her if she left?.....I have left one big queen cell and removed the rest.....is this the correct thing to do?
 

enrico 

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So ....I did the pagden split....done all the swapping as per instructions...it has been a week since I moved the hives for the last time....just inspecting the "new hive" with the old queen...and found a frame with a bunch of queen cells..... can't see the queen anywhere... can't see any eggs either....lots of capped brood and lavae.....so I figured she flew off or something happened to her???....the hive is rammed with bees still...so she couldn't have taken many with her if she left?.....I have left one big queen cell and removed the rest.....is this the correct thing to do?
I think that's all you can do in the circumstances. You may have killed the queen or she may have already swarmed because you missed a queen cell OR, SHE IS ABOUT TO SWARM so keep an eye on them if you can! !
 

simonwig 

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So ....I did the pagden split....done all the swapping as per instructions...it has been a week since I moved the hives for the last time....just inspecting the "new hive" with the old queen...and found a frame with a bunch of queen cells..... can't see the queen anywhere... can't see any eggs either....lots of capped brood and lavae.....so I figured she flew off or something happened to her???....the hive is rammed with bees still...so she couldn't have taken many with her if she left?.....I have left one big queen cell and removed the rest.....is this the correct thing to do?
Hi

I'd also double check the "old" hive, if you haven't, in case she's in there.

Simon
 
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So ....I did the pagden split....done all the swapping as per instructions...it has been a week since I moved the hives for the last time....just inspecting the "new hive" with the old queen...and found a frame with a bunch of queen cells..... can't see the queen anywhere... can't see any eggs either....lots of capped brood and lavae.....so I figured she flew off or something happened to her???....the hive is rammed with bees still...so she couldn't have taken many with her if she left?.....I have left one big queen cell and removed the rest.....is this the correct thing to do?
Were the queen cells capped?
 

Nick Lang 

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Can I check the 'old hive'...is it safe....they are a week after the last move.....so I guess there's an emerged virgin queen in there????...
 

Erichalfbee 

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They could have swarmed anyway. It’s where the Pagden falls down I think. By the time queen cells are capped they are really far down the line of swarm preps. How many frames of brood did you leave in with the queen
 

Nick Lang 

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I moved one frame of brood...and a frame of stores....all the rest stayed in the old hive with the queen cell.

On checking now.....there is the original frame...and also about two three quarter frames of brood at different stages ......I'm pretty sure I didn't squish her ...as when I saw her last Saturday she has happy on a frame with not much else around her...but who knows maybe I did.

Should I just leave the hive to let the queen emerge???
 

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They have also been creating lots of stores...the brood box has four frames of stories in there now
That’s because there is no laying queen. There’s no incentive to keep cells free for brood. If they do get a queen mated the bees will free up some space.
 

Nick Lang 

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So to confirm....shall I just leave the hive alone now for the queen cell to hatch?
...or should I go back in and have another look for the queen...in case I missed her?

Also....I'm assuming that the other hive which should by now have an emerged virgin queen in it should be left along for another fortnight? Rather than going in and looking in case the original queen went in there?....most people say to leave the hive for three week before nosing about
 
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So to confirm....shall I just leave the hive alone now for the queen cell to hatch?
...or should I go back in and have another look for the queen...in case I missed her?

Also....I'm assuming that the other hive which should by now have an emerged virgin queen in it should be left along for another fortnight? Rather than going in and looking in case the original queen went in there?....most people say to leave the hive for three week before nosing about
Capped QCs, no eggs, no Q seen. She's either dead or swarmed. Stay out or you may just do damage.
 

Nick Lang 

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Hey everyone......so it's been two weeks since the last time I went into the hive and nuc....they both had good looking (single) queen cell in each.....should I go in and see if there is a mated egg laying queen or eggs/lavae in there ....or should I leave it another week????
 

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I have noticed that if I use ready empty combs in making artificial swarm, and I put the laying queen into the swarm hive , 30% out of cases continue swarming fever. They make new queen cells.

When I use foundations in artificial swarm box, bees start to draw cells inside 3 days. The queen becomes fat again and starts to lay.

With Carniolan race often it happens, that they do not give up from swarming. They try to the bitter end.
 

Nick Lang 

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That's what I had heard from someone else also....when I created the swarm hive I only took one frame of brood and one stores....the other frames were all just foundation....she still disappeared though 🤷
 

Finman 

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That's what I had heard from someone else also....when I created the swarm hive I only took one frame of brood and one stores....the other frames were all just foundation....she still disappeared though 🤷
That is extremely rare. Nothing helps then. Perhaps she met an accident.

I do not know, what my friends have done, when several say that they have not succeeded. But often guys do not follow simple advices.

I read artificial swarm system from English beekeeping book 40 years ago. It was not known in Finland in those days.
 
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I have noticed that if I use ready empty combs in making artificial swarm, and I put the laying queen into the swarm hive , 30% out of cases continue swarming fever. They make new queen cells.

When I use foundations in artificial swarm box, bees start to draw cells inside 3 days. The queen becomes fat again and starts to lay.

With Carniolan race often it happens, that they do not give up from swarming. They try to the bitter end.
Another experienced beekeeper I know swears by that technique. He never does an artificial swarm, Pagden style, by using drawn comb, always foundation if keeping the queen with the flying bees. He also puts a queen excluder under the box with the queen and flyers, to prevent any absconding, then removes in a few days when she starts laying and some foundation is drawn.
 

Finman 

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Another experienced beekeeper I know swears by that technique. He never does an artificial swarm, Pagden style, by using drawn comb, always foundation if keeping the queen with the flying bees.
It important that laying queen is in the swarm hive. There are all foragers. Soon the queen starts laying, and itis inspired by foraged nectar and pollen. To put the queen into a nuc stops the build up of the colony.
 

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