Queen Cell spotted

[dscanlan81]

Hi All,

This'll be my first post - HELLO!

It's my first full year of bee keeping this year as i bought a hive and nuc in July last year and i'm glad to say they've made it through the winter very well.

I had a look in the hive at the weekend as there was quite a bit of activity at the entrance and so thought it would be warm enough.

Anyways... I observed the queen, lots of capped brood, capped honey, and plenty of bees. But i also saw an open queen cell but no drone cells. I'm fairly sure it was a queen cell as it was more oblong shaped and had the entrance at the bottom - am i right? I would have thought that i would see drone cells before a queen cell - is that right?

Also i have put the queen excluder on and both supers so will the additional space postpone the raising of a new queen? I was expecting to split the hive sometime in April so this has brought my plans forward somewhat.

 

[Beesand]

If the weather turns cold the bees may struggle to keep the additional space warm.
I don't normally super up until the bees have recouped from winter and have spread back across the brood body.

 

[enrico]

You are way too far advanced, take off the QE and the supers. The queen cell would have been an old one from last year. Leave them alone until it is warm enough for a t shirt. It's nowhere near that in Cheshire yet!!
Please please be patient, I know you want to see what is going on but not yet! There will be time for that when it is warm!
E

 

[Roola]

Hi All,

This'll be my first post - HELLO!

It's my first full year of bee keeping this year as i bought a hive and nuc in July last year and i'm glad to say they've made it through the winter very well.

I had a look in the hive at the weekend as there was quite a bit of activity at the entrance and so thought it would be warm enough.

Anyways... I observed the queen, lots of capped brood, capped honey, and plenty of bees. But i also saw an open queen cell but no drone cells. I'm fairly sure it was a queen cell as it was more oblong shaped and had the entrance at the bottom - am i right? I would have thought that i would see drone cells before a queen cell - is that right?

Also i have put the queen excluder on and both supers so will the additional space postpone the raising of a new queen? I was expecting to split the hive sometime in April so this has brought my plans forward somewhat.

Is it just the one cell? If so it could well be supercedure? Where is the cell? I wouldn't put on the supers, space is very unlikely to be an issue at this time of year and as said above, the extra space will take a great deal of effort to warm, this will hinder your spring build up as less bees will be able to forage for pollen if they are on nursing duty.

 

[dscanlan81]

Ah ok. I'll remove the supers.

Yep it was just one cell at the bottom left corner of a middle-ish frame. Whats the advice if it is a supercedure cell?

 

[pargyle]

Ah ok. I'll remove the supers.

Yep it was just one cell at the bottom left corner of a middle-ish frame. Whats the advice if it is a supercedure cell?

If it is ... and it's pretty unlikely this early ... leave them to get on with it ... not much else you can do !

 

[Roola]

Normally if bees are set on swarming then you'll know about it, lots and lots of cells, not just one. Try to be patient and leave them to it, bees know best.

 

[stephenpug]

QUOTE=enrico;395027]You are way too far advanced, take off the QE and the supers. The queen cell would have been an old one from last year. Leave them alone until it is warm enough for a t shirt. It's nowhere near that in Cheshire yet!!
Please please be patient, I know you want to see what is going on but not yet! There will be time for that when it is warm!
E[/QUOTE]

 

[itma]

... But i also saw an open queen cell but no drone cells. I'm fairly sure it was a queen cell as it was more oblong shaped and had the entrance at the bottom - am i right? ...

... The queen cell would have been an old one from last year. ...

Come the season, you will likely see lots of "play cups".

The essential thing that distinguishes these (and old QCs) from real "charged" QCs is what is inside.
Is it dry, or wet with a larva (or egg) in there?


And here's some reading for you - best to read through carefully before you need to refer to it!
http://pembsbeekeepers.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/wag_queen_cellseng.pdf

 

[Roola]

Come the season, you will likely see lots of "play cups".

The essential thing that distinguishes these (and old QCs) from real "charged" QCs is what is inside.
Is it dry, or wet with a larva (or egg) in there?


And here's some reading for you - best to read through carefully before you need to refer to it!
http://pembsbeekeepers.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/wag_queen_cellseng.pdf

 

[Beesand]

 

[pargyle]

And here's some reading for you - best to read through carefully before you need to refer to it!
http://pembsbeekeepers.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/wag_queen_cellseng.pdf

Totally agree ....

I have this document as part of my 'library' ... it's a really good, easily understood, document that prepares you for a variety of 'queen related' situations. Penned, in part, by Wally Shaw OBE whose various 'pamphlets' and writings are always worth a read (and saving off !) when you come across them. I know he also does a number of talks during the year and whilst they are mainly confined to Wales and the Western Counties I would imagine they are a treat if you can get there.

 

[HM Honey]

I know how you are feeling and what you are going through. This is my third season but my first winter is still raw in my mind. It's terrible, having to wait and not being able to do anything but thats exactly what you have to do.

The only manipulations you should be doing at this point in the year is maybe putting on fondant if needed. You will do more harm than good if you start messing with them now.

As someone said, remove the QE and supers and put them back to bed......

 

[Chris B]

As others have said it was premature to do anything except perhaps feed. But there's probably no harm done that the bees can't rectify or at least manage. It's not that cold at the moment and the spring won't be late like last year (things look quite advanced to me). I will be supering before the end of March I think as the bees are looking strong everywhere. Giving a strong colony too much space is a lesser sin than giving them too little!

The queen cell? Forget it. Whatever happened was months ago but your bees are healthy now by your description.

 

[HM Honey]

I will be supering before the end of March I think as the bees are looking strong everywhere. Giving a strong colony too much space is a lesser sin than giving them too little!

Totally agree, but up North, it will probably be mid April before I super up. You really need to use your judgement based on what YOUR bees are doing as no colony is the same.

As Chris B says though...once they start expanding, better to give them too much space, than not enough.

 

[itma]

I'm not nagging, but there is (yet) another important point

...
I had a look in the hive at the weekend ...

Anyways... I observed the queen, lots of capped brood, capped honey, and plenty of bees. But i also saw an open queen cell but no drone cells. ...

The important thing that you did NOT report was the amount of empty (but drawn) comb available for Q to lay in.
Running short of laying space (perhaps through excessive stores in the brood box) is THE problem to watch out for when the Spring population explosion gets going.
When Q runs short of space, you can be sure they'll be thinking of swarming.


And that brings me to a couple of other points about space.
Adding a super doesn't count as adding space until it is drawn.
So, if your supers have foundation rather than drawn comb, err on the side of adding a super too early rather than too late.
And to help them draw it with minimum delay, it makes sense NOT to fit the Queen Excluder until the bees have clearly got stuck into the task of drawing out the super frames.
And if the box and frames also happen to be brand new, expect the bees to be unimpressed and take their time to "go up". So stick the extra box on even earlier!


How much brood and how much stores did you see? You'd be expecting to have brood on (at the very least) six frames before adding the first super.

I doubt any harm has been done by the premature inspection.
If they really did have "lots of capped brood" and the weather was warm enough for the bees to be flying freely, then it wasn't terribly premature!
I'm a great believer in two tools particularly useful for the novice beekeeper.
1/ A see-through coverboard - saves actually opening them up to see what they are up to.
2/ A luggage scale for weighing the hive. You need to have a visual estimate of how much stores are in the hive, to know the meaning of your first measurement. After that, you have an idea what it means when they have, for example, lost 3.5 kg since you saw what they had (it means they have about one fully-stuffed national brood less of total stores than when you looked).


Oh, and welcome to the forum, by the way!

 

[bontbee]

And here's some reading for you - best to read through carefully before you need to refer to it!
http://pembsbeekeepers.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/wag_queen_cellseng.pdf

This booklet is downloadable, along with three other titles in the series, "Feeding Bees", "Making increase" and "Comb management" at:

http://www.wbka.com/information-station/

 

[MartinL]

You shouldn't be poking around in these temperatures or making if anymore difficult for them to keep the hive warm.

Hefting for stores, or maybe a polite tap on the outside, (if only to satisfy a primeval lust to disturb them) is the most I'd be doing right now.

What if someone stuck your duvet to the bedroom ceiling in the middle of the night, you might just notice a bit of a chill creeping in, wouldn't you?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Running short of laying space (perhaps through excessive stores in the brood box) is THE problem to watch out for when the Spring population explosion gets going.

I'm panicked on that score; only down 10kg over the winter so thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Roola]

I'm panicked on that score; only down 10kg over the winter so thanks for the heads-up.

Yep, mine have used very little of their stores and I have no spare drawn brood comb... Am hoping they start tucking into their stores more once brooding fully kicks in.