Queen Cell in 2013 nuc

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troedyrhiw

New Bee
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
36
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Location
West Glamorgan
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
2
Hi, I have a 2013 queen and nuc in a full hive and she appears to be laying well however when I did an inspection yesterday there was sealed queen cell and the queen was still there (a supersedure?). The stores that came with the nuc have been emptied and they are slow at drawing the new frames. There is some stores but not much. The two empty stores frames that came with the nuc are on the outer edge of the brood, (ie. There are foundation frames between brood and original stores).

Being a noob I killed off the queen cell, not sure this was the best plan, but as the queen is still there I didn't think it would hurt. I also started feeding them again.

Should I move the drawn frames the other side of the foundation frames to encourage laying and should I feed them?

It is a 14x12 national and the nuc came from a standard national. Looking at the hive entrance early this morning it is still very active bringing nectar and pollen in.
 
as a newb your first port of call should be the welsh assembly queen cell pdf.

supercedure indicates that the bees aren't happy with HM for some reason.

as finman might say "who knows best - a one hive newbie or a superorganism that has been evolving on the planet for millions of years"


"they are slow at drawing the new frames"

have you put the nuc (5-6 frames) straight into a full BB with another 5 odd frames of foundation? no wonder little drawn.

best practice is to give foundation as needed and dummy down the remaining space.


re feeding - see other recent threads BUT yes - if little or no stores they need some feed - a good rule of thumb is 2 frames of stores min at all times.

and back to the above - "they are slow at drawing the new frames" - what do you think they use to make wax or the heat to build with it? if no stores or nectar flow and no feed then comb will not get drawn.
 
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You are not telling us enough.

Was this a bought-in nuc recently or much earlier in the year?

There may not be a great deal of forage at the present time. You ideally want around a coupe of frames of stores for a colony to be reasonably safe until the next inspection.

Bees will ocasionally change the queen, particularly if a thrown-together nuc with a queen which is not the mother of the workers.

A deep National nuc dumped in the equvalent of a brood an a half, would almost certainly considerably benefit from dummying down, as per Dr above.

Make sure the entrance is closed down to very small, to avoid wasp invasion and only feed in the evenings to avoid attracting the wasps or other robbing bees.

Depending on a lot of factors, you may or may not have been right to cull the queen cell - just not enough info to say.

Not a good time to get a nuc, if it is a recent acquistion.

RAB
 
Thanks for the replies. The nuc was bought a little over a month ago. The other one I have was bought a month before and it's doing a lot better.

I'll dummy down and keep feeding and see how the get on, if there's a new queen cell next week I'll leave it.

Would it be best to rotate the brood box so it's in the warmer orientation, (ie framea running at right angle to the entrance?

Thanks
 
Does the hive have a solid floor or OMF?

If a solid floor I would run warm way and place a dummy behind at this time of the year. Reason is the bees are closer to defend the entrance.

Actually I would use a divider, not a dummy.

Earlier in the year I would put the nuc at the back if warm way (with a divider with its own small entry/exit, or a short divider) and if cold way to one side or the other.

Now, if on OMF, does it really matter? But as above for wasp trouble avoidance.

If you need to feed, the feeder might influence the position, possibly?

If the other one is strong enough, you could transfer a frame of emerging brood to boost the smaller. Somehow I doubt it is but whatever you do, avoid compromising the stronger hive. You may yet need to take this later acquisition through the winter as a large nuc or small colony. But plenty of time yet to expand well if the season is good.

Always think more bees, not just more stores, until time for autumn feeding.
 
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With two small colonies and this late in the season might it be an option to squish the queen they are trying to supercede and combine the two colonies into one to get them up to strength to get through the winter ?
 
Wow, what a difference a day makes!

It's OMF so I decided it wouldn't make much difference if I turned the brood box around, and I've reduced the entrance to a smaller gap already - no wasps around but didn't want to risk it.

Went down to reduce hive down etc as suggested above. But when I got there they had taken a feeder full of food (3 pint of 1.5:1). Looking through the crownboard, (I made a clear perspex one a few weeks back) I could see the bees were running about on all frames. There were loads of bees inside and a stream of bees bringing in nectar and pollen, (ie. It didn't look like they were being robbed).

Based on this observation I moved the drawn std national frames back on the edges of the nuc so they are all together and left the taller foundation frames on both sides. I'll keep feeding until next inspection and see how they are getting on.

I've not been feeding this hive much (and stopped feeding the stronger one) as reading posts about feeding suggested over feeding could reduce the space for queenie to lay... I guess I didn't feed this one enough to start with :(
 
Keep feeding and keep them warm you've got at least 4 weeks to build up before you think about uniting. a good pollen substitute would help if none found in stores
 
Hi, did an inspection today, 6 days on after feeding the hive all week.

The bees have been very active, plenty of pollen and nectar flow.

When we opened the hive today, the bees were more alarmed than normal, less calm and more reactive when we lifted the centre frames. We also saw an open queen cell that had been sealed and not the one we killed off 6 days ago, (at least I don't believe it is). We also didn't spot the red queen - but she was obviously laying strong.

My thoughts are to reduce the feed as they have plenty of stores and have been drawing out comb, and not disturb them for a couple of weeks to settle down.

On a plus note the other hive is also doing really well, a little less active but plenty of stores and brood... and I saw queeny for the first time unsupervised. She's really good at playing hide and seek and most of her marking had worn off which doesn't help!
 
Thanks for the replies. The nuc was bought a little over a month ago. The other one I have was bought a month before and it's doing a lot better.

I'll dummy down and keep feeding and see how the get on, if there's a new queen cell next week I'll leave it.

Would it be best to rotate the brood box so it's in the warmer orientation, (ie framea running at right angle to the entrance?

Thanks

have you a varroa treatment on, i never inspect during that, 90% of the world use langstroth type hives and they are all cold way, doesn't seem to effect them ,but cold way gives you more bees on the middle frame at the entrance as a defence against wasps
 
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Meant there was a sealed queen cell that looked like it had hatched, but given it's only been 6 days it couldn't of hatch??
 
Best leave her a lone for a few weeks then & hopefully she'll be mated before end of season

Yep so only one hive (and the nucs) to inspect next Sunday- unfortunately (in a way) now also got a new queen who will have to go on standby in a newly made up nuc - decided with one hive to requeen and save the faff of hoping for a good mating as the queen had already gone by the time the cells had just capped. Obviously missed one QC because i found it yesterday when I went to remove them all - newly vacated and the others torn down! doh! - it's going to be an interesting autumn! - my friend suggested maybe putting the two hives in the greenhouse to keep them out of the worst of the winter weather!!
 

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